Bryan! (00:03.382) You're listening to Bring Me the Axe. I'm Brian White in one half of this morbid equation and I'm joined by my co-host and actual brother, Dave White. Hey Dave, how you doing?

Dave! (00:11.987) Thank you for asking. I'm pretty good. I went out last night for all you can eat Korean barbecue.

Bryan! (00:19.698) Oh, is that the thing where they have the plate in the middle of the table?

Dave! (00:21.782) Yeah, it was. It's the first time I've ever done that. And I'll tell you, the idea of all you can eat Korean barbecue, it's a bit of a double-edged sword. And it's like, it...

Bryan! (00:29.908) Does this look like a man who has had all he can eat?

Dave! (00:32.586) Yeah, it's like you're either living life right or you're living life wrong, but you're not gonna know which it is for about 12 hours. It was an experience. It was a real experience.

Bryan! (00:43.164) Yeah, I'd heard of it and then like, because they don't do that shit around here. This is not a sophisticated place to live. But when we went to Hollywood, we went to a spot that was off the off the boulevard that did it. And at first I was like, this is some fucking bullshit. This meat is garbage. And then a friend of mine who'd like lived there and had done this before was like an expert was like, No, no, you're doing it all wrong. You gotta mix it up. Here's the sauces and shit. And then after that,

it was amazing. But yes, a little bit more greenery would be nice instead of a gigantic pile of meat that they just keep adding to. That's that's some crazy ** Yeah. So yeah, it's been uh it's been a great week. We announced a new show a few days ago and and let me tell you man, the response we got from that announcement was really something. Um if you have not heard yet, we're going to be going weekly starting on January 1st and this show will continue to be bi-weekly but

Dave! (01:08.832) Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dave! (01:19.543) We did do that.

Bryan! (01:33.134) on bring me the axes off weeks, we'll be doing a new show with a very similar format called 99 cent rental, which is dedicated to all the weird trashy movies that otherwise don't fit in this particular format. So like car chases and action movies, breakdancing and martial arts, it's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm really

Dave! (01:49.762) Yeah, one of them is Delivery Boys, and that movie is the craziest thing I've ever seen.

Bryan! (01:53.478) I'm you know what I'm looking I'm definitely looking forward to doing that one, but I think I saw a different movie than you did because when it was done I was like

Dave! (02:01.827) It's just like a breakdancing movie, but with a lot of hustlers. It was just like, what if break in two, but everyone's a male prostitute? It's that. That's the movie I saw.

Bryan! (02:05.758) It's everybody's.

Bryan! (02:12.387) It's Yeah, it's pretty crazy. But we've also got we've also got 1990 Bronx Warriors on the slate. And then yeah, we're at the so the first week we're doing three movies, we're doing those two, and then we're going to launch with one of my picks a movie that I just recently discovered called Beyond the Seventh Door. That is it's something I have been describing it as an anti movie lately. Yeah. So hey, Dave.

Who's this over here?

Alaina (02:41.549) Ha ha ha!

Dave! (02:42.107) Mm-mm. We have a guest. We have a New York Times bestselling author. Yeah, I know. And, yeah, and the co-host of not one, not two, but three very popular podcasts. And most importantly, my friend, we have Elena Urquhart. Hi, Elena.

Alaina (02:47.342) Ooh.

Bryan! (02:48.738) Well, this is a major upgrade for us.

Alaina (02:53.899) I'm sorry.

Alaina (03:01.945) That is an amazing introduction.

Bryan! (03:03.458) That was a really great introduction, man. It was spirited in ways that we haven't, we have not done. I hope our other guests don't feel jealous or nothing. Yeah. Yep. So yeah. You say the.

Dave! (03:05.07) Thank you.

Alaina (03:10.153) Jeez. It's the friend title is my favorite.

Dave! (03:10.504) Well, you gotta work up to stuff, you know?

Dave! (03:16.854) Well, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you, I invited you here because, so for some context for everybody, Elena and I tend to agree on pretty much absolutely everything in all, like up to and including adolescent celebrity crushes. Shout out to Gary from Are You Afraid of the Dark. But you know what, you know where we don't agree is Hellraiser.

Alaina (03:28.755) Yep.

Alaina (03:37.364) Hell yeah. It's the glasses.

Alaina (03:45.961) Ugh, this is where we diverge.

Bryan! (03:47.498) I'm I well here's the thing is you like I this is where we agree cuz I don't know what else we agree on but I think that we can agree that on Hellraiser being a hell of a movie. Dave, I will get we'll get into it but I don't I don't understand how yeah like it's weird. This better not be like Halloween 2018 all over again.

Alaina (03:54.112) Yeah

Dave! (03:54.675) Okay.

Alaina (04:03.609) I'm on an island.

Dave! (04:09.65) Ah, that... God, fuck that movie. That was terrible.

Bryan! (04:13.769) It was be like a reverse of our Rob Zombie Halloween episode. Well, after it was over, I was like, Oh my God, I hope I hope Heather didn't feel like a tact throughout the entire thing.

Dave! (04:16.603) I- I am resentful.

Alaina (04:16.897) Hahaha

Dave! (04:23.937) Mm.

Alaina (04:25.353) I'm ready. I'm ready for this. I know what I'm getting into. I know my feelings are very niche. I've come in armored for it.

Bryan! (04:26.201) Yeah.

Bryan! (04:32.456) Hehehe

Dave! (04:33.69) I feel like I'm the odd one out on this one, because everybody fucking loves this movie, and I just don't see it. I don't get it.

Alaina (04:36.866) I'm sorry.

Bryan! (04:41.602) Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't understand where you're coming from. Yeah, you're definitely the you're the odd one out here. So we practically grew up in neighborhood video stores and the steady diet of utter garbage that those shops provided us with continues unabated to this day. There's no one else I enjoy chopping it up with more about trashy movies and Dave. Just before we get into it, here's a little housekeeping. You want to keep up with us between episodes. You can also find us on Instagram at bring the AxePod.

Alaina (04:45.834) I love it. That's okay.

Dave! (04:48.48) and

Bryan! (05:09.99) And Dave's over there at that queer wolf. We're having a real good time over there. It's turned out to be a lot more fun than it would be. I kind of thought Instagram was gonna be a real fucking labor, but you know, it is like once you.

Alaina (05:20.573) It's kind of fun. It's gotten better. Yeah, it's gotten better, I feel.

Dave! (05:21.654) No, it's just, it's dog videos and what else?

Bryan! (05:25.642) Yeah, for me, it's a shitload of cat videos and then people like raving about horror movies. So yeah, you know, it's that the algorithm gets me, but I really would like a little bit more control over it. So like every third video isn't Ghost Face or Michael Myers, like pole dancing or twerking because I feel like I see like I got like an hour's worth of those like 30 second clips like every single day. And it's just.

Alaina (05:30.153) Yeah, that's all you need really.

Alaina (05:49.885) I love that for you. I was going to say, wow, what an algorithm.

Bryan! (05:53.37) But then again, the algorithm really does know me, so like what the fuck is that saying about me?

Dave! (05:59.246) I mean, I think it's just when I a long time ago pre Trump's election, I used Facebook and I remember I used to get a lot of like weird like Christian ads and it's like the algorithm definitely did not get me because I am not your girl.

Alaina (06:12.222) That algorithm was backwards.

Bryan! (06:15.274) Or maybe it did and it was like, we need to save his soul.

Alaina (06:17.917) Yeah, I was trying to pull you in.

Dave! (06:19.087) Maybe they know something I don't know.

Bryan! (06:23.286) You can also contact us. All right. Just sorry. Let you jump back there. We also got a sweet website at bring me the acts.com. Listen to all our past shows there and read the transcripts. You can also contact us directly at bring me the acts pod at gmail.com with any questions, comments, or suggestions. Do let us know if there's a movie that you love and would like to hear us give it the business. And lastly, if you like what you hear, you can subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts and you'd be doing us a big favor by leaving us a five star review on Apple podcasts. So get.

to it. God damn it. Like what do we got to do?

Dave! (06:53.226) Yup. And tell your friends. Tell all your friends.

Bryan! (06:57.474) every single one of them. I don't even if they don't like horror movies, just be like, listen, these guys are fucking funny. So yeah. Oh my god. See, see.

Alaina (06:57.729) Tell everyone.

Alaina (07:03.513) Hire a skywriter. Tell everybody. Right? Yeah. That's it. Skywriting. That was it.

Dave! (07:08.383) That's the best way, the most efficient way to get messages out these days.

Bryan! (07:10.906) Okay, see now I get it now. I understand how you how you guys are so big cuz like you think you're thinking I'm not thinking sky writers Right in the sky and gossamer teardrops So yeah, I just want to get a get all that out of the way right at the top of the show So as we said, it's hellraiser. So let's give you a taste of what we're doing

Bryan! (09:04.826) that is the ** right there. there's a lot of shrill noise

Dave! (09:06.794) Yeah, that's a real visual one, isn't it?

Alaina (09:08.985) That's my guy. That is.

Dave! (09:10.75) a lot of shrill noise in that in that trailer and that fucking Stephen King quote from the beginning my god he uses that for everything

Bryan! (09:17.738) You know, here's the thing is, is way back in the day, like when this movie came out and like I was buying Fangoria magazine and shit, that kind of a pull quote just carried so much water for me. I'd be like, Oh, my God, is Stephen King's into him than that. But then what I would learn in my adult years is Stephen King says that about everybody. You know, you're sure? Yeah, like, who's your agent? Like, they gotta they gotta know.

Alaina (09:18.11) I love it.

Alaina (09:29.917) Of course.

Alaina (09:36.225) He hasn't said it about me, I want that. Can I be next?

Dave! (09:40.962) Probably.

Alaina (09:44.713) All right, let's go. Steven on the line.

Bryan! (09:48.246) Yeah, that is uh that's how that trailer really sells it.

Dave! (09:52.706) And I wish Clive Barker actually was the future of horror. He's not. It turns out he's not, but it would have been a lot more interesting if he was.

Bryan! (10:02.883) I would argue like that going into the 90s. I would definitely say that he had an outsize impact on like what came from it. I mean, at least until kind of scream came along and was just like, No, no, we're doing slashers from now on. And everybody was like, Yeah, sure. But yeah, but like

Dave! (10:09.592) Yes.

Alaina (10:10.42) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (10:18.034) I'm fine with that. You can keep your weird demon sex movies.

Alaina (10:18.403) Absolutely.

Bryan! (10:22.759) Hahaha.

Alaina (10:22.887) That's what I love. I think that's one of the things, the demon sex of course, but I love that this is like totally different. Like it's so original.

Dave! (10:30.67) All right, I'm gonna lay it out. I'm gonna lay this out because my argument is this. Because I thought about this quite a lot because I was like, why don't I get this movie? I think I do get it. But my thing about this is I do think Clyde Barker is very, very creative and very imaginative. I don't love his writing just because it's not really the style I'm that into, but.

Bryan! (10:31.414) Okay, that is.

Alaina (10:34.782) Nothing's original.

Dave! (10:54.778) I think, so first of all, I think this came out at a time where it's a very ugly time for society in general. Color palettes are fucking terrible. There's nothing nice to look at in this movie. Everything's dumpy and rundown and shitty, and I don't think that's part of the movie. I think that's just the way everything looked in 1987.

Alaina (11:12.145) I argue there's one nice thing to look at.

Dave! (11:13.878) No. Okay. I think the biggest problem, I also think this is like weird structural problems with the narrative in general. Like there's a lot of continuity stuff. There's a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense. And probably a lot of that is about editing.

Bryan! (11:14.714) Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehe hehehe

Alaina (11:24.633) Mm-hmm. Ahem.

Bryan! (11:30.042) I will agree with you that this is a very, very clunky movie. It's it's definitely the product of a person who's never made a feature film before, but let's contrast that with another prolific with another prolific horror author who only a year before decided to dip his toe into filmmaking with a movie that involved a lot of cocaine and trucks that drove themselves. This movie is

Alaina (11:34.178) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (11:44.326) I was actually thinking about that while I watched it.

Alaina (11:55.073) Ha ha ha!

Dave! (11:55.17) Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (11:58.818) 10 million times more competent and engaging and interesting than Maximum Overdrive is. Revert to our Maximum Overdrive episode.

Dave! (12:05.261) Yes.

Alaina (12:07.274) Okay.

Dave! (12:08.302) But here is my issue with the movie in general. This is the reason I've never liked it. It's the reason I don't like a lot of Clyde Barker stuff broadly, is that I find the presentation of supposedly deviant sexuality to be really watered down in this. And it feels really juvenile to me. Like it feels like asking a 12 year old to explain S&M to you. And they're like, oh, it's real dirty. You're like, okay.

Bryan! (12:27.851) Okay.

Bryan! (12:33.306) it's that way for some pretty obvious reasons. The MPAA was super hard at this point. They were going really hard on thematic intensity and so and not to mention the fact that this movie has an inherent queerness to it that is whitewashed hardcore because there was no way in hell the producers were going to be like you can't you know you can't make a

Alaina (12:33.519) Everything's dirty.

Dave! (12:37.207) Yeah.

Dave! (12:45.059) Yes.

Dave! (12:59.498) He was also not openly gay at this time. I mean, he was like with friends, but not publicly.

Bryan! (13:03.982) Sure, but at the same time, it's so endemic to the rest of the movie.

Dave! (13:07.566) Oh yeah, but that's the thing is like, he's built this aspect of the story, this sort of sexual imaginary is a big part of his story. And it's just his work in general. And when you remove big chunks of that imaginary, you end up with a story that feels like it's missing a lot of things. And that's how this movie feels to me, is it feels really juvenile in its sort of construction of sexuality and of kind of non-normative sex, I guess. And...

Bryan! (13:15.854) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (13:36.106) And if you can't articulate a nuanced explanation of masochism, for example, even when it's so core to your story, then you end up missing so much. And it just feels like this weird, it's there for shock value, it's there to be titillating, but it's also supposed to be a big part of the story. So you're just kind of left with these kind of weird, gross out set pieces and then a kind of pseudo villain.

who looks cool as shit, sounds awesome. Like, Pindead's the coolest part of this whole movie. He's only in it for five minutes or whatever. So that's where I get it. I know why this movie is important. I can see why Clive Barker is a really creative person. I just don't think they pull it off in this. I think it is new. I think that's probably why it dominated the way that it did, is there really wasn't anything like that at the time.

Alaina (14:10.457) True.

Bryan! (14:30.666) Oh, no, this dropped this drops in 1987. So we'll do we'll do the like the other movies that came out that year. But the movie that we just did came out in 87. And it was, you know, and it's just that one also kind of bucks the trends, but only because it's like a retro movie at a time when sort of expectations of slasher movies were much different. This one is just like, okay, there's no guy in a mask. There's no quippy super villain.

like Chuck E's a year out, like the kind of expectations of horror at the time were very set in stone, you know, like if you were going to serve, if you're going to succeed, it had to, you know, it had to sort of meet theatrical expectations. This one drops, it is nothing like anything and like anything before it or anything since. I don't really, I can't really think of anything that's like this movie. I put it on when I have a very specific

sort of like a thirst that I like other movies just won't like

Alaina (15:30.005) Thanks for watching!

Dave! (15:31.574) You know who has a similar vibe? Who's the guy who was married to Mila Jovovich? He made Resident Evil. What's his name? Paul W.S. Anderson. He's a little bit like that. There's less of a sexual component.

Alaina (15:40.394) Oh

Bryan! (15:41.301) Oh, yeah.

Alaina (15:42.809) Mm-hmm. You know what? This story is like...

Bryan! (15:48.289) I could see that in Event Horizon. I definitely get some of that. Yeah.

Alaina (15:51.617) This is like the ultimate I can fix him story. Like, like when at its core, when it's like boiled down, it's just Julia being like, I can fix him. Like he, this is my time. Like the whole time I'm like, Julia, you can't.

Bryan! (15:55.342) Hehehehehehe

Dave! (15:56.606) It really is.

Bryan! (16:02.666) I'm gonna bring this guy back from the grave so I can.

Dave! (16:06.726) I think that's what the American distributors, like probably the studio even, didn't get. It was like, the villain in this movie is not the Cenobites. It's Julia and Frank. And that's what I think threw a lot of people off, was like, wait, these D-mini looking things, they're not the bad guys? It's like, well, not really. Not yet.

Alaina (16:16.118) No! Yes!

Bryan! (16:18.018) No.

Alaina (16:20.414) Yeah.

Bryan! (16:26.207) they're just doing what they do. Yeah.

Alaina (16:26.489) No. Yeah. And at one point Pinhead tells her like, this isn't for your eyes. Like, he's like, turn around girl, this isn't about you. And it's like, I love that. I know. This isn't for your eyes.

Bryan! (16:33.942) Yeah. But even after they kick her out, she's about to

Dave! (16:37.732) It's like me to a bachelorette party at a drag show. This isn't for you. Get out of here. How dare you?

Bryan! (16:41.23) Yeah, so let's run down some facts here because I got a shitload. I got a lot to talk about in this just even before we even get into the details of the movie. So other movies released that year. So this is 1987 again. Don't panic, which I'm gonna mention every time we do something in 1987 because you fucking love that movie to death. Also, Blood Rage. See our Blood Rage episode just came out.

Alaina (16:51.498) Yeah

Dave! (16:57.443) Yes.

Guess I fucking love that movie.

Alaina (17:01.433) I'm so sorry.

Alaina (17:05.755) Ooh.

Dave! (17:06.934) Don't love that movie. Turns out, not as big a fan as I thought it was.

Alaina (17:08.233) I'm sorry.

Bryan! (17:13.983) Also, Dario Argento's opera.

Dave! (17:16.816) Ugh, ugh.

Bryan! (17:18.33) Oh, you know what? I think that's probably his last good movie.

Dave! (17:20.61) That's when Dario Argento lost it.

Bryan! (17:24.31) Uh, yeah, well, I don't know. I can't sleep comes out or sleepless.

Dave! (17:27.138) That's the one with the needles in the eyes, right? Yeah.

Bryan! (17:29.854) opera is the needles in the eyes one. Yeah. Also, but let's get real. Let's get real filthy with this one. Ruggiero de Odado's body count, which is so bad. It's one of the worst fucking movies I've ever seen. And then lastly, rounding it out. Delirium, Le Foto De Gioia.

Alaina (17:39.329) Ha ha.

Dave! (17:39.36) Eee... Yup.

Dave! (17:46.774) And I'll tell you what, that movie, not good at all.

Alaina (17:49.321) Wow, so 87 was killing it.

Bryan! (17:49.571) Nope. Yeah.

Dave! (17:51.05) Yeah, well, I'm telling you, that's why I'm like this. It's ugly, and it's a shitty time to be alive. Weirdly, though, this is about the time, I think, when my memory kind of kicks in. Like, it's right around the time when I start to be, like, an active participant in the world, which is why, kind of, it's why this movie made such an impression, because it is visually very stunning, especially if you're a child.

Alaina (17:55.723) No.

Bryan! (18:05.794) Yeah.

Alaina (18:06.09) sentient being.

Alaina (18:13.305) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bryan! (18:14.942) Yeah, yeah, it really did stick with you. So the director, as we've said, is Clive Barker. He's one of the freshest voices of 80s horror, sort of apart from spawning the Hellraiser series. He's best known for his short story collections, the Books of Blood, and several extremely dark fantasy series. For one of my money, he's one of the most original just horror fiction writers of all time. And probably...

Dave! (18:39.062) I've read anything of his. I think, wait, no, I tried to read, is it called Cold Heart Canyon? I tried to read that one. I thought it was a little bit...

Bryan! (18:43.518) Yes. Definitely not the one to start with. Those books of blood, I think there's five or six of them. Maybe, I mean, there might even be seven at this point. But it's just short story collections, and they're all wicked good. But eventually, like he does the hellbound heart.

which is what this is adapted from. But he wrote that with the full, with fully intending to adapt it to a film. It was like he wrote it with an agenda. But like eventually he, after this, and I think might breed, he kind of goes back to being like an author. And he wrote Weave World, which is really good. He wrote The Great and Secret Show, which is my personal favorite.

And it all it all sort of this it all kind of like this was like a launch pad for everything else that he's going to do, which is kind of like this idea that like there is a secret world hidden beneath this one and it is fucked up and it's like one of my favorite horror movie tropes of all time. He plays a huge role obviously in inspiring the whole splatter punk thing in the 90s. So the cast we've got Doug Bradley as lead Cenobite.

Alaina (19:33.497) Thank you.

Alaina (19:52.117) Woo.

Bryan! (19:53.034) Yeah, he comes, he becomes known as Pinhead by the broader public almost.

Dave! (19:56.75) For a man who wears a shitload of makeup and is covered in metal and leather, I don't actually, nevermind, I was gonna say, you have an odd attraction to him, but I guess I kinda get it.

Bryan! (20:07.915) No, I recently posted on Blue Sky that like, definitely I'm into the centibytes.

Alaina (20:13.433) Yeah, how can I mean, Pindad, he looks great. Okay. And he really does. And the one thing that always bothered me, and I'm sure we'll get into like what they look like more, but it always bothered me that his teeth were gross in this one. And then in the next movies, they switch between, but they switch between him having these beautiful white teeth and dirty teeth in all the rest of the movies. And I like it better with the clean teeth because for some reason that's scarier.

Bryan! (20:17.482) It's such an awesome look.

Bryan! (20:29.083) I know!

Dave! (20:29.302) Yeah, they all have real British teeth.

Bryan! (20:38.732) Yeah.

Alaina (20:42.617) Because dirty is so easy to be scared of, I feel like. You know, it's like an easy one. I'm like, but the perfect white teeth are like, that's the thing, I feel like he wouldn't have dirty teeth.

Bryan! (20:45.244) Oh, yeah, yeah.

Dave! (20:47.662) Well there is something very pristine about-

Dave! (20:52.994) He's very like his kind of robes and dress thing that he's wearing. It's very like, everything is very pristine about him.

Alaina (20:57.649) Even his nails are like, yeah, yeah. So it just didn't make sense to me.

Bryan! (21:01.05) Yeah. So he's done a lot of other movies and even started out of acting in Barker's silent films in his stage plays. He's been around but like we said, made a left a major scar on horror history with Panetta. He's just, you know, immediately recognizable.

Dave! (21:18.57) And he's very humble, which is also nice because they're not always humble.

Bryan! (21:22.696) Hahaha.

Alaina (21:23.393) He is like, we had him on Scream and he is one of the nicest people I've ever met. It was one of those like, meet your hero moments because it was like, please be nice. Yeah.

Bryan! (21:28.066) that's awesome because that's a real that's a real roll of the dice like I think I've gone on record on here like I talked about meeting Tom Savini and our maniac episode and it's like a it's like a half hour story of a train wreck of a meet and greet that spiraled into decades of active beef and I'm pretty sure that yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you about it some other time or you can just listen to our maniac episode. It's at about the 50 minute mark.

Alaina (21:48.604) Oh no-

Alaina (21:54.645) Well, Doug Bradley's wonderful and his wife Steph is like a sweetheart as well. So they're both lovely.

Bryan! (21:58.606) That's great. So, uh we also got Ashley Lawrence. Uh she's one of modern horrors, B Greats. Uh this was her first major role. She'd go on to do three more before leaving uh to do other projects. Um everything else that she's done is uh I don't know. Not really much worth talking about. Uh she's done some TV and she's done a lot of like direct to video stuff but yeah.

Alaina (22:06.112) Love her.

Dave! (22:18.03) TV, mostly TV.

Bryan! (22:25.042) and then rounding it out, we got Claire Higgins who is a prolific English actress and then oh no I mean because I only do three and I might as well talk about the majors but yeah Andrew Robinson is in the Scorpio from Dirty Harry. I own oh he's also the haircut obsessed military guy in Child's Play three. Yeah.

Dave! (22:29.582) You're gonna leave out Andrew Robinson? Scorpio?

Alaina (22:32.776) Larry!

Alaina (22:37.465) Yeah.

Dave! (22:40.39) I only know him as Scorpio, that's the only other thing I've ever seen him in.

Alaina (22:42.027) Oh.

Alaina (22:49.513) Oh wow. That's a deep cut. I like that. You're like, wait a second.

Dave! (22:49.668) Mm-hmm.

I forgot about that.

Bryan! (22:52.406) No, I know. I just I just watched it recently and I was like, I was like, oh shit. Yeah, Sandra Robinson. But yeah, prolific English actress that Claire Higgins, this and the sequel are among the shortlist of horror movies that she's done. Apparently, she's never she's never seen either of them. Because she does not just not care for horror movies. But yeah, her filmography is stuff that I'm sure is very relevant to people in England, but

Dave! (23:19.234) Yeah, she's the only one that really had like a big career outside of these.

Alaina (23:22.371) Mm.

Bryan! (23:26.178) Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty small cast, so yeah. Yep. So some taglines for the movie. Yeah, demon to some, angel to others. Yep, yep, it will tear your soul apart. Yep, and there's the one that is, there are no limits. Mm-hmm.

Alaina (23:29.994) Yeah, it really is.

Dave! (23:34.875) Oh man.

Alaina (23:39.409) I love that one.

Dave! (23:39.58) Okay, that's the real one.

Dave! (23:44.36) Also the real one.

Alaina (23:44.461) Hmm. Ha ha ha.

Alaina (23:50.297) The limit does not exist.

Bryan! (23:50.65) And then, and then here's another, here's another one. We have such sites to show you. This is so fucking, this is all dialogue from the movie. But here's the one.

Alaina (23:54.933) Ugh. I love that one. The sites to show you line is the one that I was like, I bet you do.

Dave! (23:57.13) The sites to show you what is from the reissue. It's from the Arrow reissue.

Bryan! (24:01.388) Oh, gotcha. But...

Bryan! (24:05.67) Yeah. But here's the one. Here's the one. Here's my personal favorite. Satan's done waiting.

Dave! (24:07.97) Yep, let's do it, get it.

Hell yeah. That cannot be real. That one cannot be real.

Alaina (24:11.897) I'm sorry.

Bryan! (24:17.239) it's as far as the IMDb is concerned that is a real one. I've never seen that anywhere. It's that is pure 1987. Satan.

Alaina (24:21.569) That's phenomenal. Ugh.

Dave! (24:23.21) It's also goofy as shit. There's no way they put that on this movie.

Alaina (24:27.041) That's magnificent. I love it. Satan's done waiting, right?

Dave! (24:30.734) Satan's done waitin' I'm gonna get a t-shirt that says that.

Bryan! (24:35.55) Yeah, that's going straight on our merch. So this movie was made on $1 million, which was pretty small even by 1987 standards, and man, does it look like it at times.

Dave! (24:37.102) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (24:37.29) I love that.

Dave! (24:47.426) It's also distributed by New World, isn't it? So that's not surprising at all.

Bryan! (24:49.782) Yeah. They started out with a budget of less than less than a million, about 900,000. And then when they ran out of money, they supplied another hundred thousand to finish some special effects.

Dave! (25:02.274) But it pretty much made that back in the first week.

Alaina (25:05.332) Yeah.

Bryan! (25:05.706) Oh yeah, this movie made like, in its initial theatrical run, it made like 20 million dollars. And that's before it hit video, and before there was merchandising and shit. So like.

Alaina (25:11.921) I was going to say that's what I thought it was.

Dave! (25:17.526) And that's $1987. I mean, today that's like, I don't even know how much that is, billions.

Alaina (25:19.105) worth it. Yeah, yeah.

Bryan! (25:23.585) That's yeah. Yeah. So yeah, adapted from

Dave! (25:26.012) You want to hear some good reviews for this one? Some contemporary reviews?

Bryan! (25:29.094) Oh, I've got I've got one. So let's save it. Let's save it for that one because I've got Ebert's I've got I got a quote from Ebert's review that I that I take that I take particular umbrage with. But yeah.

Alaina (25:32.97) Oh man. Oh Ebert's review is...

Dave! (25:34.3) Okay.

Alaina (25:39.201) The half-star review.

Dave! (25:40.49) I actually agree with a lot of the reviews.

Bryan! (25:43.886) So this is adapted from the hellbound heart. I recommend it. It's a fucking great book. It's better than the movie, you know, but as most novels are It describes it spends way more time on the centibytes and it describes them in much greater detail and the way they're described are not like in the movie. But There's a few differences. Larry was originally a character named Rory and Kirstie isn't his daughter in the book. She's just a friend who's like secretly in love with him. Yeah, so

Alaina (26:11.445) Hmm, interesting.

Dave! (26:12.191) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sounds familiar.

Bryan! (26:13.57) Yep, so Barker took on the project shortly after the Hellbound Hearts publication because of his experience with his prior adaptations of his work that ended up less than stellar. That's Rawhead Rex and a movie called Transmutations, which I've been meaning to watch, but I've just never seen it.

Dave! (26:30.03) That sounds like a full moon movie.

Bryan! (26:31.962) it does. It has a poster like a like a full moon movie. He he decided that it's really ** bad. Yeah. It's so bad. It's so bad. Yeah, but the plan was to adapt the hellbound heart to screen from the start. It's primary motivation for writing it and he really figures out the directing thing with Nightbreed but you can see what's taking shape with this one.

Alaina (26:32.045) Yeah, it does. Mm-hmm.

Dave! (26:36.61) Rawhead Wrecks is terrible.

Alaina (26:39.329) The name of that is rough.

Bryan! (26:54.678) And so Barker apparently enjoyed his time in the director's chair, says that everybody was pretty cool with how completely inept he was at making a movie, though, I gotta say, movie has its shortcomings, but for a first time feature, it's you could do a lot worse. This is

Dave! (27:09.014) Oh, there are moments, though, where his inexperience really shows.

Bryan! (27:13.482) Yeah, there's a part of the thing that really bothers me about the movie is how obviously the house is really, really small. In spite of the fact that everybody's like, oh my God, this house is so big. Like they reuse like shots over and over and like camera positions because it's pretty clear that like it was the only place in any given room to put the camera. But yeah.

So yeah, he originally intended for the score to be composed by the industrial musical duo coil, who they did. It does, I, I'm going to link to it in the show notes. It's fucking great. I love coil. I've been a big fan of them since like the late 90s when I when I kind of discovered them in school. There.

Dave! (27:43.81) They did do it. It does exist.

Dave! (27:56.571) I am not.

Bryan! (27:58.266) I would not imagine that you'd be terribly interested in them. But like he said, they produce some demos. They're incredible. It's just utterly terrifying pieces of music. I think it's OK. So.

Dave! (28:07.502) Christopher Young's score is pretty good.

Alaina (28:07.559) Mm.

I do, I love this score.

Dave! (28:11.086) I think he gets, as for Young gets a lot better as he got older and got more experience, that's I think is an early one for him. But his newer stuff that he's done is actually pretty good.

Bryan! (28:20.798) Yeah. So when Barker ran out of money, he went back to the studio who provided him with the cash to finish Special Effects, but it came with some stipulations. One of them was that they got to hire Christopher Young to score the movie. So we get a perfectly functional, but comparatively boring score. It uses some of Coyle's motifs though. They do eventually release their work as an EP titled Unreleased Themes for Hellraiser. It's long out of print. It's great. It's on YouTube. I'll link to it.

Alaina (28:45.293) I want to hear this now. I haven't heard it. Hmm.

Bryan! (28:50.526) It probably costs a fucking fortune to own those records if you can find them. So Pinhead is not the name of the character in the script. And Barker apparently hates that name. It rose from the crew on the set of the movie that made its way out to Fangoria, where it kind of became the de facto name of the character as far as the public is concerned. And in the script, he was called Lead Cenobite. And even then, by Barker's original intention, the Butterball Cenobite was the lead.

but when the makeup application made it impossible to talk, his lines were given to Pinhead and the female. Yeah.

Alaina (29:24.313) Thank goodness.

Dave! (29:25.386) I believe they had a fairly intimate relationship as far as I understand. Clyde Barker and the guy who plays Butterball.

Bryan! (29:30.979) Who?

Bryan! (29:34.194) Oh yeah, yeah. But.

Alaina (29:35.865) Good for them.

Dave! (29:37.546) I mean, there was a third person involved, I believe. Maybe even a fourth.

Bryan! (29:40.858) Thanks for watching!

Alaina (29:40.945) Was it, and was Pinhead's name also supposed to be like the priest? I think I remember reading, which I kind of like, weirdly.

Bryan! (29:45.698) the hell priest. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Dave! (29:48.886) Is that the, I think it is, well, that's what it is in the new one, right?

Bryan! (29:53.122) So, yeah, in the new one.

Alaina (29:53.985) I think he was one of the other ones, they wanted him to be called the priest.

Bryan! (29:57.706) Yeah, like the hell priest and the cold man is the other is the other name that he kind of goes by but um in uh there's a book called the scarlet gospels.

Alaina (30:00.882) Oh no, he did freeze.

Dave! (30:05.494) and my hope of the next otherwise it's just gonna be you and I. I mean you should not leave the narration up to me. I had to do it one time for like five minutes and I was like and then the blonde girl's running around and then she trips and falls down.

Alaina (30:07.665) Maybe not.

Alaina (30:19.965) I've done this one once so I just be like, I got you. Don't worry.

Dave! (30:23.982) Bye.

Bryan! (30:24.976) Is that why we never used those recordings?

Alaina (30:27.865) Fuckin' internet. It's bullshit.

Dave! (30:28.914) This is...troubling.

Alaina (30:35.489) You know what's troubling? I can't taste food.

Dave! (30:38.274) Well, just in general. Can you imagine if you lost it completely?

Alaina (30:39.977) Yeah, I can't taste food.

Alaina (30:44.737) That would suck ass. I really hope it comes back. I hope it's just from the medicine because I think it just started with the medicine. Paxlovin. Mm-hmm. See, it worked like immediately. Woke up the next morning feeling great. Well, great. Comparatively great.

Dave! (30:46.818) That happened to my mom. My mom, she lost her for like six months.

Dave! (30:55.626) Oh, you took Pax Loebid?

Dave! (31:06.734) Feeling alive. I wonder if he can jump back into this or if he has to start.

Alaina (31:12.893) Oh, that'd be so annoying for him.

Dave! (31:14.598) I know, be annoying for me. And for you. Jesus, we haven't even started talking about the movie yet.

Alaina (31:16.369) It won. Yeah. Fuck that.

Alaina (31:22.721) Oh, oh, there he is.

Dave! (31:22.806) Oh!

Bryan! (31:23.486) Alright. Alright. Yeah. I don't know what is I don't know what is happening with my internet tonight. I just cut out twice and it is it. Somebody is just determined to to to prevent this from from happening anyway. What the ** were we talking about? Oh yeah. Um so the help the hell priest. Yeah. So um

Alaina (31:30.561) It's just too much greatness in one window.

Dave! (31:32.75) That's right.

Alaina (31:40.224) They don't want to hear what we have to say.

Dave! (31:44.822) Satan's done waitin'!

Alaina (31:46.389) Oh that, yeah the hell priest. I love that.

Bryan! (31:52.878) eventually like so eventually like 10 sequels erupt from this movie. And they completely get out of out of out of Barker's control. And this is something that like I don't I honestly don't blame him because the sequels go off the rails almost immediately.

Alaina (31:57.598) Ugh.

Dave! (32:04.854) Yeah, this is arguably the worst series in like the worst horror franchise out there.

Alaina (32:05.549) They sure do.

Bryan! (32:10.27) So, so what ends up happening is it falls into yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. So, so what ends up happening is it um it's uh it's the ** Weinsteins again, right? So, yeah. So, they end up, it's like what ends up happening and I think we've explained this in other in other episodes is is you get when we did Halloween. So, when you get um property, you get the rights to it but you have to use them. You can't

Dave! (32:12.758) Sorry, next to Amityville. And for the same reason, kind of.

Alaina (32:15.748) Good.

Alaina (32:23.001) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dave! (32:23.81) Later on.

Bryan! (32:38.318) and so what ends up happening is the they get they get them well I mean obviously I mean just so you

Dave! (32:42.338) And do you know why that is? There's that weird law that says you cannot hold something unreleased if someone else wants to release it. It's like either you have to do it, or you have to give them the relinquish it to them.

Bryan! (32:57.53) Well, sure, because I mean if they didn't have a like a law like that like in place, then people would just be buying up IP and then doing nothing with them just to kind of hold a hostage and so. So so what ends up happening is they don't really get any good ideas, but they don't want the rights to revert to whoever used to have them or to go up to auction or anything like that. So they keep they keep what they do is they keep taking in scripts for other movies and go. Oh, this is really good, but what if we put pinhead in there?

Alaina (32:58.829) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (33:04.354) That would suck.

Dave! (33:05.822) I wish someone would do that with Marvel movies.

Alaina (33:08.381) Me too.

Alaina (33:26.841) Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (33:27.502) and then the producer goes awesome let's do it and so you get like uh you get like hellraiser

Dave! (33:33.22) You get nine lawnmower mans, essentially.

Bryan! (33:35.582) basically, some of them are just un ** watchable. Um there's that one. There's that one sequel. I think was the very first one that doesn't have Doug Bradley in his pinhead. I've never seen it. I can't remember what it's called but it has but but the guy that they do get, there's all these photos of him floating around and I I swear to god and I'm being totally honest about this. I used to think that it was an SNL spoof of Hellraiser with with Bobby Moynihan as

Alaina (33:35.781) They are outrageous at points.

Dave! (33:39.318) Why not in space?

Alaina (33:42.55) That one was kind of fun.

Alaina (33:47.857) Me neither. Wouldn't watch it.

Alaina (34:00.401) Yes, because it looks wild. He looks wild.

Dave! (34:03.29) Oh no.

Bryan! (34:04.311) as pinhead he looks that bad.

Dave! (34:06.631) Is Bobby Moynihan is a larger man, is he not?

Bryan! (34:10.702) Yeah, and apparently so is this pinhead.

Alaina (34:11.167) This guy's like jacked. Like he looks he's not pinhead. Yeah.

Dave! (34:13.855) No.

Bryan! (34:16.454) But you'll just look it up. And then eventually I was like, holy shit, that's not what I, it's a real movie. But.

Alaina (34:21.169) It's off-putting. It's very... Yeah. It's very alarming.

Dave! (34:23.277) It's like when Kane Hodder starts playing Jason Voorhees and you're like, what is that? Is that a house?

Bryan! (34:27.47) Yeah, but that works out for Friday the 13th. After that, there's a movie called Hellraiser Judgment, which honestly, better than it has any right to be. And then they do that 2022 remake, which I'm gonna be real with you, I think it's better than this one. Oh my God!

Alaina (34:46.577) I haven't seen it yet. I know I need to watch it and I really want to. The more I've seen clips of it, I'm very intrigued by it.

Dave! (34:48.undefined) I am surprised you haven't watched it.

Bryan! (34:53.33) The Cenobites, the Cenobites in it are, they're just, they're, their designs are much closer to the original sort of intended novel descriptions. They're super, super cool. Like I just, I think it's really good. And they're in a

Alaina (35:03.269) Yeah.

Dave! (35:07.262) And they're in it a lot. Like they are the core of the movie. And it's pretty, like I watched it once. I didn't really think much of it the first time. Then we watched it again. And I was paying more attention. And I think they make a lot of really good choices in it. Like aesthetically really interesting stuff. Like the story's kind of, it's more or less the same story as the first one with some kind of updates and some flourishes. But it's basically the same story. But they make a lot of just really, like interesting aesthetic choices.

Alaina (35:09.457) I love that.

Alaina (35:22.262) Mm.

Alaina (35:36.941) Hmm, enough to watch it.

Bryan! (35:38.086) the book. Yeah. And yeah. And so, the design in that one is closer to the book which in the book, the way that is described is um first of all, it's he's and perfectly androgynous. He has a very feminine voice and the nails all have like jewels on the end of them. It's a really yes.

Dave! (35:55.138) which they do in the new one. So Pinhead is played by a woman in the new one and it's all like they're pins still, but they have these kind of pearls or crystals on the end. It's really cool looking.

Alaina (35:55.289) Ooh.

Alaina (36:04.869) I noticed that like little I love that idea. That's really cool.

Bryan! (36:09.874) So the series immediately spawned an entire empire of merch and independent stories. Following the Hellbound Heart, Barker moves on to broader work. But Marvel picks up the IP, passed it on to their adult imprint, Epic, where some seriously dark shorts were produced by people like Mike Mignola of Hellboy and Neil Gaiman did some, and also Lana Wachowski. I read some of them tonight, like I downloaded them. They're nasty.

Alaina (36:37.555) Yeah

Bryan! (36:38.75) in a really particular way that was really particular to independent comics of the late 80s. It's it's Yeah, it's fucking great. So Robert Roger Ebert hated this movie.

Alaina (36:46.027) I'm sorry.

Dave! (36:49.886) Now, to be fair, Roger Ebert hated most horror movies. This, from the man who wrote the sequel to Valley of the Dolls, one of the worst movies ever made.

Alaina (36:50.27) This review. Yeah, he did.

Bryan! (36:53.679) Yeah.

Bryan! (36:57.282) Yeah, yep, he, yep, yeah, but it's got that line in it. This is my happening, it freaks me out. So yeah, he ranked it half a star and he describes it as a movie without wit, style or reason. And the true horror is that actors were made to portray and technicians to realize the bankruptcy of imagination, which is categorically objectively false. The entire

Alaina (36:57.365) What?

Alaina (37:00.529) Yep.

Dave! (37:05.23) That's true.

Dave! (37:23.618) Damn, girl. I actually disagree with that one. I think he is very much wrong in that. It is extremely imaginative. It's just not that well executed.

Alaina (37:25.033) Yeah, that's rough. Yeah.

Bryan! (37:34.75) Yeah. That's the thing is what like, well, I think personally, like this, I wouldn't even place this in like in a top 10 for me, but I do enjoy it a great deal. But it's the sort of broader implications of the story that I really kind of hook into. Like there is there is an there's an entire world happening behind the scenes in this movie that like, and I'm not alone on this other people just were like ran wild with this with this story. And most of it

Alaina (37:34.889) Yeah, we can agree on that.

Bryan! (38:03.666) for bad, but there's some really good stuff. And then there's some like really unofficial shit that kind of came out of it. Like there's a Swedish role playing game called Cult that I'm a tremendous fan of that minds very deeply of this material. And turns out one of like the greatest horror role playing game scenarios like I've ever seen. It's like unbelievably dark and extremely nasty. And like if we ever do a Patreon, like I'll fucking run it for subscribers because it's the shit but

Yeah, there's that that's I think that's the part of this movie that I really like the most is that there's so much fucking room for your own imagination to kind of run wild in if you sort of allow it to because I can understand why a lot of people would be turned off to it because it's a fucking nasty movie.

Alaina (38:49.933) Ha ha

Dave! (38:51.214) But I think that's why critically it does much better in the UK than it does here, at least critically. And I think it's because American audiences were so attuned to, you know, Freddie and Jason and all this sort of leather, not leather face so much, but you know, the slasher stuff. And you get this, it's like who the villains are is a little bit ambiguous. The sort of sexual component of it is very different than it would be in the US.

Alaina (38:56.423) Yeah.

Alaina (39:12.298) Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (39:15.898) Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It has the this the movie sexuality is probably the thing that's sort of like interests people but definitely revolts American viewers. Like as hard as it does because like it's pretty frank in that in that manner.

Alaina (39:26.073) Mm.

Dave! (39:31.01) But I don't, that's what I'm saying is I don't think it is. I think it's too watered down to the point, and that's because of sensors and editing, but like, because I think the sex scenes in this were originally very explicit and they had to cut most of them. And they let like, they were like, you can do one or the other. And he's like, oh, fine, I'll do this one or whatever. But like, it doesn't, you don't see, I don't know. Maybe it just was like the era, there was never going to be an opportunity to have that.

Alaina (39:42.969) they were.

Dave! (39:59.678) um, more nuanced or more adult presentation of, um, sort of non-normative sex or whatever. I think it was always going to be treated with this, like, you know, in the sort of Reagan and Bush era, it was always going to be this kind of, like, conservative sort of titillating, you know, it's so naughty, but, you know, and that, that way of presenting sex is, it's so fucking boring that I think that's what really throws me is, like, you have an interesting story here. You're just not really able to tell it.

Alaina (40:18.158) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (40:28.937) You have to take it there. Well, that's...

Bryan! (40:30.254) It would take a few. It would definitely take a few more like a couple of decades to get to a spot where you know expectations were a little bit more permissive. Yeah.

Alaina (40:34.909) Mm-hmm. It could actually take it where it needs to go. But what Brian was saying about how you love, like, how there's like a whole world beyond this that you can like, you can taste a little bit in this movie. And that's what I loved about this is like the whole Cenobite world and the whole idea of that whole thing. I wanted, as soon as I saw this movie, I was like, I want to know everything about that world.

Bryan! (40:49.842) Yeah.

Bryan! (40:59.762) Yes!

Alaina (41:00.921) I want to know, like bring me into that world. I need to see it from beginning to end. Show me every corner, every nook and cranny. Yeah, like give me it. And I thought the second one would do that and it gave you a little bit. They needed to give me more though. I was like I need more of this. Yeah. They are the most interesting part.

Dave! (41:06.434) Yeah, cause otherwise it's a weird relationship drama that ends badly, like...

Bryan! (41:10.81) Yeah. And they definitely they give you that they give you that in part two a little bit more but yeah but um I mean also

Dave! (41:19.102) yeah. maybe that's what i want. maybe i just want more centibytes and i don't get it. and like i don't give a shit about these other people. they're all kind of awful.

Bryan! (41:27.366) Yeah. No, but also like this movie kind of lands in a weird part of like British culture that is very unique to England that America never ever had anything even really close to so like.

Alaina (41:29.335) It's true.

Dave! (41:44.014) Well, because it has a very like, kind of like a Derek Jarman, very like sex forward aesthetic, and he does try to do that in this, and it goes badly every time.

Alaina (41:49.869) Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Bryan! (41:52.954) Yeah, but I mean, even beyond that. So like, obviously, like he was spending a lot of time in like industrial music clubs and like, like BDSM clubs. And so there's this really fascinating, like, sort of convergence of cultures that's happening in England at the time, that produced like throbbing gristle and psychic television and coil, you know, like others are a very obvious reason why he was familiar with coil in the first place. But also, fetish culture is also really a big part of that as well. But also,

Dave! (42:21.43) I think you do get that in the US, not till the 90s. And I think it's once the sort of new queer cinema kicks off, then you start to see like the new queer cinema and like the indie film scene, when those kind of converge, you start to see that more kind of deviant for lack of a better term, sexuality being included, but it doesn't ever make it to the mainstream like this.

Bryan! (42:44.11) Yeah, but like, I mean, really, but the part that I find most interesting is also there is a really, really heavy occult influence on it. And it's the same sort of convergence that gave us like Grant Morrison and Alan Moore and like all of these guys, including those musicians and these filmmakers are all sort of like feasting off of like the writing of Austin Spare and Alistair Crowley.

Dave! (42:51.383) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (42:51.737) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (43:04.174) Well, especially Grant Morrison now. Like if you look at who Grant Morrison is now, like, you know, in terms of gender and sexuality, like it's very, very forward thinking. And I, you know, I think maybe Germany too, you'd see a little bit of that. Like I, there's a lot, I keep thinking of like that movie Killer Condom, which despite its really stupid name and its really stupid premise, it's actually a really fascinating movie that I'm very surprised got made when it did.

Bryan! (43:10.971) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (43:17.378) Yeah.

Dave! (43:29.214) It just, this shit just doesn't happen in the US. And this movie, despite being very British, it is, they go out of their way to make it feel not British at all.

Bryan! (43:39.25) they actually that is a very deliberate stylistic choice that the producers voice it because there is not one second of this movie that actually when I read that just recently when I was doing research for this I was like fucking seriously because there is no frame of this movie that does not look that yet does everything looks

Alaina (43:39.833) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (43:42.59) and it is a bad choice.

Alaina (43:42.795) Yeah.

Dave! (43:54.046) It is the most British looking thing I've ever seen. From the teeth to the buildings to the accents, it is. Yep. Yeah. Like, Frank's accent, I get it. Well, that makes sense because he's played by someone different when he's a gross puddle of goo. But so that is obvious. His voice is obviously an overdub. But I think Keerste's boyfriend is fully overdubbed. And there's a lot of ADR shit that's like,

Alaina (43:59.995) But they dub over most people, don't they? Yeah, like with American accent.

Bryan! (44:03.807) Yeah.

Alaina (44:11.301) Yeah, when he's like the skeleton.

Bryan! (44:12.435) Mm.

Alaina (44:20.505) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (44:23.766) You just can't, you can tell that they're, you know, what is that?

Bryan! (44:28.014) No, no. Ah, god, it's going to fuck up, isn't it? Never mind. Fuck it.

Alaina (44:33.305) I love immediately what is this?

Bryan! (44:35.186) Ha ha ha!

Dave! (44:35.272) Well, I know what it is. The topping is also cursed. It comes with a free topping.

Alaina (44:37.95) What is happening?

Bryan! (44:39.49) Yeah, so, um, yeah. So let's, let's get into it. So we open on a busy marketplace in some Asian country. We close up on filthy hands, dropping sugar cubes into absinthe.

Alaina (44:41.581) What?

Alaina (44:51.265) Ugh, the filthiest nails.

Dave! (44:51.67) Yeah, we open on shameless, shameless racism.

Bryan! (44:56.318) Oh my God, Frank's fingernails. He, it makes me.

Alaina (44:58.517) His nails are foul.

Dave! (45:00.574) Are we supposed to infer something from this, or is he just fucking gross?

Alaina (45:02.637) Like, I don't know. It's a federal crime. Like it is, I, yeah, that's disgusting.

Bryan! (45:05.19) He's gross. He's gross. Yeah, it's like, first of all, trim your fucking nails, Frank. What are you doing? Yeah. But I mean.

Dave! (45:13.794) Yeah, why do you have two inches of fucking grime under your nails? How does that even happen?

Alaina (45:17.465) Yeah. And he's supposed to be this like sex pot, like he's supposed to be like fucking everybody and I'm like who is touching you? Like who's touching you with those? Like no.

Bryan! (45:19.412) Bye.

Dave! (45:22.694) Oh, don't. I'm getting, we are going to get into that.

Bryan! (45:27.118) Yeah. Yep.

Bryan! (45:31.986) So he's hands over stacks of cash. And then a voice like the cursed froger guy in the talking crusty episode of the Simpsons, they have an exchange over an ornate box. So let's give you a little taste to that sound.

Dave! (45:37.646) Here he goes.

Alaina (45:38.777) I'm sorry.

Dave! (46:03.566) The topping is also cursed. Now, can we, why? So this is James Hong, who I don't know why he's not in the credits. It's fucking Lopan. Why is he not in the actual credits? He's not credited. Yes. That is Lopan. It's James Hong, and I don't know why. He's this super famous actor.

Alaina (46:04.275) I'm sorry.

Bryan! (46:06.402) That's bad.

Bryan! (46:15.098) Wait, is it? I did not know that. That's fine.

Bryan! (46:22.554) No shit, that's, yeah. That is your, I did not know that, well that's probably it, yep. Yeah, yep, yep. It's just, and it's not even like Catmandu 1987, it's just some Asian country.

Alaina (46:22.785) That's wild!

Dave! (46:24.882) And again, racism.

Alaina (46:27.114) I didn't either.

Dave! (46:28.342) We open on Orientalism.

Alaina (46:30.969) I'm sorry.

Dave! (46:38.122) Aren't they supposed to be in like Morocco, which... Spoiler everybody, not an Asian country.

Alaina (46:42.925) Heheheheh!

Bryan! (46:43.49) I honestly, I don't even know. I have no idea. So that we cut to a candlelit attic as a shirtless gentleman manipulates the box surrounded by candles.

Dave! (46:52.254) I'm gonna tell ya, I'm gonna tell ya right now, uh, Clive Barker is really telling on himself quite a lot in this, it's like, what's Clive Barker into? Wet shirtless dudes, I think?

Alaina (46:57.596) Mm-hmm

Bryan! (46:57.915) Oh yeah.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Hang on. Wait. When we get to the point where Julia opens the door and he's standing in the rain, rough trade. He looks like a dude on the cover of Honcho magazine.

Alaina (47:01.613) He's so greasy. Oh.

Dave! (47:03.413) Ugh.

Alaina (47:09.907) Yeah.

Alaina (47:13.514) Ugh, I can't. I can't.

Dave! (47:13.579) All right, we need to address this because everything I listen to or people talk about this, they're like, oh, he's so hot, he's so hot. I'm like, what are you talking about? He's hot. Like, I get, I mean, maybe in like an early 90s gay porn way, but like, not even that. Like...

Alaina (47:20.889) What? Who's saying that? No.

Alaina (47:28.897) No. Is hot in the room with us right now? Like what? No. Absolutely not. No way.

Dave! (47:34.519) He is fucking disgusting. But everything I listen to, people are just like, oh, man, he's the hottest thing. And I'm like, I don't know. He's kind of borderline mullet. You know he's got on real tight stonewashed jeans. No shirt because he's just wet all the time.

Bryan! (47:48.612) Oh yeah.

Bryan! (47:52.006) He does.

Alaina (47:52.097) And he's not even like an attractive asshole like he doesn't even do asshole well, I'm like well like yeah

Dave! (47:54.53) No! And then later on, he's still like a demanding jerk, and it's like, dude, you are a fucking mean pile of goo. You do not have any room to be making demands of people right now. You need help from everybody.

Bryan! (47:56.741) Hahaha!

Bryan! (48:07.942) Yeah. I mean, but back to the scene at hand. So yeah, he's yeah. Because because and this is and this I mean, in the scene in particular, my one gripe with this movie and the series actually until the most recent one is it is never clear how the fucking box works and it drives me crazy for.

Dave! (48:12.456) Oh, no, we're coming back to this later, because this is going to happen again.

Alaina (48:15.577) It's true.

Dave! (48:29.238) Yeah, because everyone's like, oh, you solve the puzzle box. What do you mean solve it? All you did was pick it up.

Alaina (48:29.581) Thank you. That, okay. That actually drives me nuts about this. You just do this to the little circle and then press every time.

Bryan! (48:34.046) because all anybody seems to do is like because they just like run their fingers over the metal working and then and then ** happens. Yeah.

Dave! (48:42.482) No. I mean, it's not so much a puzzle box, it's a touch it box, and you're good to go.

Alaina (48:46.153) Yeah, and why does everyone know to just take their thumb and just trace a circle? With your thumb though, I think you have to use your thumb.

Bryan! (48:46.299) Yeah, cause like

right? There's absolutely nothing about this puzzle. Yeah. And so apparently the people who made the new one also felt the same way because the puzzle box works way different in that one and it's an actual goddamn puzzle. Yeah. And it makes me like I like I'm looking at it and it's just like god damn it. I could not resist playing with that ** thing. Even if it stabs you in the hand. No, but

Dave! (48:51.006) Admittedly, I'd probably do that too, though. And I just get sucked into hell.

Alaina (49:03.633) As it should.

Alaina (49:10.474) Yeah.

No.

Bryan! (49:14.894) Yeah, that's just that has always driven me crazy because everybody just instinctively picks it up and starts doing that. And it's like it doesn't even like react to your touch. Like, how the fuck do you know what to do with this thing? But anyways, so as he does this, the box starts to change and there's a distant sound of a bell tolling and then ghostly lights emanate from behind the shabby walls of the attic. And when the box is fully opened, chains erupt from the center, hooks tear into his skin and he screams.

Alaina (49:20.077) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (49:41.462) and you get the weird, torturous sex post.

Alaina (49:44.041) I love how Pinhead arrives. I love that little belt hole and all the lights. I'm like, that's classy. That's a classy entrance. I like it. Oh, it's so good. But what bothers me, and this bothers me about a lot of horror movies, and I'm like, why doesn't anyone have a regular reaction to weird shit happening? Because in this moment, all those lights happen and he just looks around and keeps doing it. And I'm like, no.

Bryan! (49:48.246) I love it. I love it. Yeah, white. Oh, white zombie like also love it. They sampled it on devil music volume two. It's so cool. Yeah.

Bryan! (50:06.794) Oh, I know.

Dave! (50:11.474) And there's no way he knew this was gonna happen. Like, you knew something was gonna happen, but this?

Alaina (50:13.677) That's the thing. But then, and just have him look up and go, what the fuck? Like have him be, have like a real reaction. Like you'd be like, what is happening right now? Like what? No one does that. It drives me crazy. Yeah.

Bryan! (50:17.296) Yeah.

Bryan! (50:24.746) Yeah. Because it's usually the same thing. It's like the room starts to change and the reaction is just like, huh? Yeah.

Dave! (50:26.326) And that happens a couple times in this movie.

Alaina (50:33.497) Yeah, just to keep going. Like, I'm just gonna keep doing this.

Dave! (50:37.61) Also, you breezed by, I don't know if we've actually, oh, I think we haven't gotten to the, the way that the state of the house yet.

Bryan! (50:44.054) Oh, no, no. I've not got to that yet. So we cut to some time later. The attic is a

Alaina (50:44.061) No. Oof.

Dave! (50:47.202) Cause also on the weird torture sex post in the middle of the room and spinning around, are those dicks on it?

Alaina (50:54.189) Yes, there's at least two.

Bryan! (50:55.898) Yeah. So yeah, we yeah, we cut to it. The attic is now a gallery of swinging chains with like bloody meat hanging from these turning columns of wood with gore pinned to them. And then otherworldly people, one of whom appears to be a man in ornate leather robes with a grid carved into the flesh of his head.

pins embedded in the skull of the convergence of the gridlines. He sifts through the remains, piecing together a human face from the bits and pieces that are left over. And then he finds the box, resets it to its original shape, and in the blink of an eye, the room is returned to its original state. Not a hint of the horror that took place there.

Dave! (51:27.378) It still looks very British.

Alaina (51:29.249) Did you notice too, and this just might be me because I pay a lot of attention to Pinhead when he's on screen, but I love this little detail that they did where they made like his skin is like, you know, alabaster white all the way down, but then when it gets to his fingertips it like turns fleshy reddish color. I actually like that.

Bryan! (51:29.349) Oh yes.

Bryan! (51:43.549) Yeah.

Bryan! (51:49.51) Yeah, so I think it's a detail from the book that's not really executed in the movie because there's just no room for exposition like that. But the color of their skin being all sort of like white and ashy is because they are decorated with like ash. And so yeah, it's not that their skin is actually that color, it's just that they have been like powdered with like charred remains and stuff. Yeah.

Alaina (51:59.385) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (52:07.352) Ah, okay.

Alaina (52:13.497) covered in ash. I kind of love the like little balayage down to the end of the fingertips.

Dave! (52:22.574) Who did the makeup for this? Whose design is it? Because it's not Tom Savini.

Bryan! (52:22.714) The gloves are.

No, it's oh, but is it a Bob Keane? Does that sound right? So yeah, he goes on to do like fucking awesome shit. Also, he worked on like Star Wars and some Muppet stuff like he's got Yeah, he's got a really crazy like awesome career.

Alaina (52:29.705) I think you're right. I think it is Bob Keene.

Dave! (52:30.094) That was right.

Alaina (52:39.257) Hell yeah.

Alaina (52:44.291) Imagine having Hellraiser and the Muppets on your resume. That's an awesome one. That'd be amazing.

Bryan! (52:47.022) Yeah, I just yeah, we just did. Yeah, we just did the Muppet show. And I'm going over to do this one with a with a chains and a sex dungeon. So enter Larry and Julia. And now the house is the childhood home of Larry and his brother Frank, we come to learn as the guy who was just torn to pieces by the centibites. The

Dave! (52:53.454) Hey, man, a job's a job.

Dave! (53:06.966) Now look, between the fucking disgusting state of this house and his nails, not hot!

Alaina (53:12.561) Ugh. No, thank you! Like, what is hot about this guy?

Bryan! (53:14.294) Oh, it's vile. It's absolutely vile. And I got to know what Julia sees in him because she is like immediately taken by him. She throws her vows to the wind upon seeing this guy for the first time. Yeah. So the play out the places. Yeah, the place is a mess. I was supposed to be empty, but Frank was clearly been living there. And we also learned that Frank is a man with a checkered past.

Alaina (53:20.754) Immediately.

Alaina (53:24.884) Yeah.

Ugh. Whoa.

Dave! (53:36.898) So this is one of the reasons why it feels so British in this set design specifically, is that it's a bizarre mix, I guess maybe not that bizarre, this mix of Christian iconography and I guess again, Orientalism for lack of a more specific term. It's like there's a lot of like kind of East Asian statues and all this, but there's tons of like Christ imagery.

Alaina (53:38.088) You can say.

Bryan! (54:03.95) Yeah, so that's a Barker touch. So apparently like a lot of a lot of his sort of inspiration for the Cenobites, and just sort of like the mysticism of the movie in general is that kind of like, Opus Dei mortification of the flesh, like Roman Catholicism, sort of like suffering and pain means penitence kind of thing. And so this movie is stuffed with that shit even we even get a jump scare Jesus later on.

Alaina (54:04.153) Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (54:34.818) But yeah, like that's a touch that.

Dave! (54:35.402) Oh, you mean my new band, Jumpscare Jesus?

Bryan! (54:38.178) Oh yeah. So yeah, so as ridiculous as it may seem, the producers, the movie wanted to downplay the Englishness of it. So just about everyone with the exception of Claire Higgins for some fucking reason, Andrew Robinson and Ashley Lawrence are dubbed by American voice actors. The the

Alaina (54:38.349) That is a great band name.

Alaina (54:56.469) It's because she's like a good supervillain with that accent, I feel like. You know? Yeah.

Bryan! (54:59.654) That's got it. That's got to be it. Like they gave her the English. They were like, she's the bad lady. So we're going to give her the villain voice. Yeah.

Alaina (55:05.286) Yeah, it just worked.

Dave! (55:05.85) she also was a she was kind of an established actor too so they probably had less leeway with her

Bryan! (55:09.914) This was like her, this was like her, yeah, maybe. This was like really early on in her career. Like this was not her first, but it was definitely one of the first.

Alaina (55:09.997) Mm.

Dave! (55:21.442) And the way she is styled in this way, she's really good in this, but my God, it's like this era when everybody looks like Melanie Griffith in Working Girl, fucking shoulder pads and a neutral color palette, it's awful, really.

Bryan! (55:24.794) She is 1987 personified.

Alaina (55:25.773) Her hair. Yeah.

Bryan! (55:33.87) she's got dude she's got shoulder pads on shoulder pads on shoulder pads in this and the more evil she gets in the movie like the more severe that like hair and makeup gets it's super crazy

Alaina (55:35.317) and a kitten heel. Hell yeah.

Alaina (55:44.033) Yes. The hair gets like boom. I love it.

Dave! (55:47.862) This is why I can't, this movie, everything is so fucking ugly in this movie. He, he, he.

Bryan! (55:54.556) Well, it's kind of like how we do this. Whenever we do like a movie in the 80s, which is like all of our movies, we always point out that like the kind of like retro wave, everything is purple and green and like, like peach colored like that's not the 1980s. Like the 1980s was like wood paneling and brown carpets and shit like this is the 1980s.

Alaina (56:06.983) No. Real ugly.

Dave! (56:12.586) and every woman dressed like Julie.

Alaina (56:13.073) Yes. And I love that that's like her hot outfit, like her hot girl shit. When she goes to like a bar to pick up men to kill, she dresses in a full pantsuit every time. I'm like, hell yeah, girl. Yes. Huge snot in the big sunglasses, the hair up to here. I was like, get it.

Bryan! (56:15.206) Yeah.

Dave! (56:23.609) Oh, and that bar.

Bryan! (56:27.755) Yep, and she's got those massive star earrings that she wears. Yeah.

Bryan! (56:35.086) Yep. No, no, but the thing is, is that this very clearly communicates to all the girls, like all the guys around her, like this lady is here to fuck.

Dave! (56:35.251) Neither of you are making your case for me.

Alaina (56:43.569) Yeah, absolutely. This gal. She is. This bitch.

Dave! (56:43.626) Yeah, she's a real bitch though. Just a real serious bitch. Look at this bitch. What the fuck do you think she is? I'm getting felesque.

Bryan! (56:48.387) Yeah. So Franket. Johnny hammer sticks.

Dave! (57:01.349) This shit never gets old.

Alaina (57:04.733) It's never not gonna be funny.

Bryan! (57:04.866) No way. No way.

Dave! (57:07.202) Not my chair, not my problem.

Alaina (57:09.121) The amount of times I quote that per day. It's outrageous.

Bryan! (57:13.594) I know I'm with my people when somebody goes no way, no way. Not my chair, not my problem. This is this Mr. Balloon Hands. So now Frank and Julia are apparently trying to make a rocky marriage work and settling in this house is the first step towards getting that back on track apparently.

Alaina (57:18.341) I say not my chair, not my problem, at least once a day. It's a balloon.

Alaina (57:29.12) Ugh.

Alaina (57:36.657) Larry's trying. He's trying so hard.

Bryan! (57:38.118) He's trying, oh my God, they go, they lean so hard into what a weenie this guy is. And it's, and the heart, like the real heart of it is coming, but just all immediately off the bat, I'm like, oh fuck this guy.

Alaina (57:43.676) I know, I'm like, ugh.

Dave! (57:43.924) Yeah.

Alaina (57:47.727) Yeah.

Alaina (57:51.366) Poor Larry.

Dave! (57:52.411) That's how you can tell this is written by a gay man, because it's like the woman's this real, like, sexy, stone-cold bitch you really like, and the guy's like, Ugh, God. He's here. Oh, look, she's here again.

Bryan! (58:01.735) Hahaha

Alaina (58:01.745) He's just really pathetic.

Bryan! (58:06.202) Yep, as we find out Julia is thirsty as hell for somebody else. So now the phone rings and we find out that Larry has a daughter named Kirstie and that she's settling in town. Oh, no, the mattress is coming. We're not there yet.

Dave! (58:15.382) Are we just gonna skip over the mattress issue?

Dave! (58:20.598) The mattress takes up a quarter of this movie. Moving the mattress.

Bryan! (58:22.754) fucking right? I swear. Holy shit. I so when I watched it this time. Okay, let's save it because my god that for some reason, whenever I remember this movie, the mattress scene seems to occupy like a third of the running time. There's like 30 minutes of them trying to push a mattress up the stairs and then like 5 minutes of pinhead and the rest is just like goo and yeah, I don't know but yeah, so she's got uh

Alaina (58:23.001) Sure does.

Dave! (58:26.91) It is a short story unto itself.

Alaina (58:29.233) It really is.

Alaina (58:39.084) Feels like it does.

Alaina (58:47.178) a blur.

Bryan! (58:52.314) daughter named Kirstie, she's settling in town back at Frank's room. Julia leafs through some photos of Frank fucking his way around the world and then she keeps

Dave! (58:58.754) Okay, we need to stop for a minute on these photos because why is everyone so it's Frank with a bunch of different women. The women are all nude. Frank is fully clothed in all jeans and a shirt in everything.

Alaina (59:00.893) And this just sets her off too, I love that.

Bryan! (59:10.202) Yep. Fully clothed.

Alaina (59:11.949) fully. Those fucking jeans. And I love that this treasure trove of like bootleg porn that she finds like sets her on like just a fantasizing about Frank trip and I was like what about this filthy ass mattress on the floor with bugs everywhere and just like...

Bryan! (59:17.525) Yep. Yep, I just thought...

Dave! (59:17.718) It's cause he's so hot.

Bryan! (59:23.837) Yeah.

Bryan! (59:29.213) Yep.

Bryan! (59:33.81) Oh my god, it's yellow and yeah.

Dave! (59:35.074) This guy who has sex with his jeans on.

Alaina (59:37.793) Yes, like what about that just got you like, oh remember that time in my life? Like you should be erasing that. Like it should be like men in black, like mind eraser style. Never think about that again.

Bryan! (59:42.979) it.

Bryan! (59:48.99) like leafing yeah like leafing through them now leafing through them to find out if there's one of her that she needs to delete yeah

Dave! (59:49.194) No. Those are the good old days for her.

Alaina (59:55.593) And you know that's what she was doing.

Dave! (59:56.03) Also, who's taking these pictures? He's in the pictures with a woman. Who else is there?

Bryan! (59:59.03) I was gonna ask that. Yep. Don't ask these questions. Fellow hedonists. Yeah. So, uh, so she yeah, she finds one rather artful shot of him relaxing with some lady she tears away the face of the woman. So with a couple, no, the couple moving thus begins the longest struggle to move a mattress that I've ever seen.

Alaina (01:00:02.481) I was wondering as well. Yeah, don't worry about it.

Dave! (01:00:18.006) Nothing weird about that.

Alaina (01:00:19.674) No.

Dave! (01:00:24.53) It is like it is made of pure granite.

Alaina (01:00:24.789) And it doesn't move very far.

Bryan! (01:00:27.006) the thing is, it's not, the scene is not very long. It just feels really long and I don't know why that is. Oh my god, the mover, the guy, he's like, hey, let's take five fellas and the guy turns to the lady and goes, hey, you got any beer? It's like, ** you, man. Like, go, you know, I don't care what you do on your thing. Just get the mattress up the stairs but

Dave! (01:00:34.25) and they hired the worst movers for this. These fucking dirtbags.

Alaina (01:00:34.681) I think, yeah.

Truly.

Alaina (01:00:44.586) Yeah.

Dave! (01:00:47.602) Like, this is a woman who just put her cigarette out on the floor in the living room. Do you think she's gonna get you a beer?

Alaina (01:00:52.387) Thank you.

Bryan! (01:00:53.886) Holy ** the spite of that scene is amazing. Oh yeah, but then eventually like Larry's like, well, I guess I'm going to get it. He comes in, comes in, throws a throws throws an entire six pack of these guys. And so the last thing these dicks need is is beer.

Dave! (01:00:56.746) Mm-hmm. Yeah, get it yourself, bitch!

Alaina (01:00:57.523) I was shook by that.

Dave! (01:01:04.962) Same thing.

Alaina (01:01:06.269) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (01:01:12.537) Yeah, you're not even slightly up those stairs. I'd be like, you get all the way up there, you can have a beer.

Bryan! (01:01:15.471) Nope.

Dave! (01:01:18.638) Well, they can't, they're lugging a thousand pound mattress. They need four more guys.

Alaina (01:01:21.97) Apparently.

Bryan! (01:01:24.291) Yeah, I have moved some awkward furniture in my time. Let me tell you, it does not take this long.

Alaina (01:01:29.151) No.

Dave! (01:01:29.66) They are given the working class a bad name.

Bryan! (01:01:32.402) Yeah, so yeah, now Kirstie makes her entrance into the house having to deal with these shitty movers while Julia stares at a picture of Frank. And then yeah, also she notices all of like the Catholic icons. It's like this shitload of like this huge collection of just like big statues of saints and shit just tossed out of the trash.

Alaina (01:01:33.305) I'm sorry.

Dave! (01:01:49.706) And so this is some of that shit that just doesn't make sense. It's like, are you going to explain why this is here? Because if not, you should probably take it out.

Bryan! (01:01:58.226) I'll grant you that because it does seem just kind of like a rootless style. Like there's nothing else in the movie that really kind of like anchors it.

Dave! (01:02:06.386) And it's very provocative imagery. So it's like, it's not just decor. Like you either has to be there for a purpose or not.

Alaina (01:02:07.013) Yeah. Mm hmm.

Bryan! (01:02:11.834) Yeah. Yeah, it's like, yeah, like, just from my, my personal, like, understanding of my knowledge of like, this story and sort of the kind of scene that it came from, like, it makes sense to me. But that I'm like one person out of millions of people have seen this movie. It just doesn't. It doesn't compute. But it is definitely, it's definitely a part of the. Yeah, it's definitely a part of the. It's part of the

Alaina (01:02:14.129) I can give you that.

Dave! (01:02:30.142) And that's, I think that's where his inexperience shows though, is like he's trying to do too much.

Alaina (01:02:30.344) No.

Alaina (01:02:35.265) Give it a purpose. If you give it a purpose, it would be phenomenal.

Bryan! (01:02:37.614) It's a part of the mysticism in the movie that just is never explained. And so like without it, it's just, I don't know, it's just a meaningless detail. But yeah.

Alaina (01:02:44.981) one of my favorite things in the third movie is when he goes into the church and he does that like I am the way I die at that every time. So it's like that stuff works if you can you have to make it work though it can't just be there for you know just be like oh look at that religion.

Bryan! (01:02:51.526) Oh yeah. The Christ pose.

Bryan! (01:03:01.307) Yep.

Bryan! (01:03:06.123) Yeah. Yep. So now we cut to a flashback of Julia answering the door at some point in the past. Yep. And there stands Frank. And you can tell. Yes, she does because her hair is longer. And yeah, she's a little, little younger.

Dave! (01:03:10.634) real sexy moment.

Alaina (01:03:13.813) And she has her bullet.

Dave! (01:03:19.366) And this is the most softcore gross sex I've ever seen.

Alaina (01:03:19.454) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:03:23.918) It's, yeah, it's super, it's, yeah. Ha ha ha.

Alaina (01:03:24.214) Oh, yeah.

Dave! (01:03:26.602) It's like he may as well have a pizza in his hand. He's just fucking soaking wet, his mullet is all wet.

Alaina (01:03:29.105) It's truly...

Alaina (01:03:33.557) Oh, he's so foul. He's like honestly repugnant to me. I can't I don't get it at all

Bryan! (01:03:39.11) Now, that's...

Dave! (01:03:39.118) his fuckin- his- his cavaricis are all wet so is his izod shirt his white linen izod shirt is soaked through

Bryan! (01:03:50.727) it's just it turns, turns sexy and so yeah, like, like you guys like.

Alaina (01:03:51.041) Ugh.

Dave! (01:03:53.558) Guess!

Alaina (01:03:53.769) Oh, it's very weird. And she's wearing a very strange negligee as well that has like bows on it and has bows on here. So it makes it even weirder. And then he like cuts the strap with the fucking knife. I was like, why did you do that?

Dave! (01:03:57.037) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:04:00.039) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:04:06.682) Yeah, so like apparently they like shot scenes of him like spanking her and shit the MP the MPAA was like was like no this is no that's not going in the movie.

Dave! (01:04:10.838) Yeah, no, this part, yeah. This was supposed to be a very explicit moment.

Alaina (01:04:11.506) Oh, I read about this too.

They're like switchblade or spanking. You'll get one.

Dave! (01:04:19.838) It's not spanking, it's actual anal sex that they're having in this moment in the movie. And the NBA was like, no they're not!

Bryan! (01:04:24.309) Uh.

Alaina (01:04:24.929) Damn.

Bryan! (01:04:27.418) No, you can have a switchblade and like them sticking their fingers in each other's mouths, which...

Dave! (01:04:31.67) Okay, that's the second thing we got to talk about because I There are so many fingers in mouths in this movie. It is so fucking gross

Alaina (01:04:32.533) Oh, okay, yeah.

Alaina (01:04:38.845) Okay. And here's the thing when chatter later sticks his fingers in Kirstie's mouth, not even that bothered. All the other ones I'm horrified by. But when he does it, I was like, I was like, well, yeah. Yeah. It felt right. I was like, I get that. He does. He just like, boop.

Bryan! (01:04:43.538) When Chatterer does it.

Dave! (01:04:44.779) Yup.

He goes for it.

Bryan! (01:04:48.272) Nope.

Bryan! (01:04:51.534) You expect. Yep, you expect the chatterer to do something like.

Dave! (01:04:51.606) Because I saw it for mixed meals!

Dave! (01:04:57.794) And he does it real casually too, he's just very like on her and-

Bryan! (01:05:03.302) you. Yeah. Antithesis is sexy. I don't. No. Thank you.

Alaina (01:05:05.966) Ugh. Mm-mm.

Dave! (01:05:07.982) And then right on the wedding dress. So tacky.

Alaina (01:05:10.678) right on the wedding dress.

Bryan! (01:05:10.798) Yeah. Yep. So these shots are intercut with shots of Larry and the movers trying to get the bed up the steps until he eventually cuts his hand on a loose nail.

Dave! (01:05:18.914) All right, but do you know what this is? This is the eyeball scene in zombie. Pulling the face towards the nail. As he's moving the mattress, it just keeps getting closer and closer. And you know what's gonna happen, just a matter of when. And-

Bryan! (01:05:27.783) Uh...

Bryan! (01:05:32.458) Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, because they keep cutting back and forth between the hand and the nail. Is it going to happen? Look, yes.

Dave! (01:05:37.194) and he drags his hand along the head of, not the pointy part, the flat head of the nail, and it is like he sets his hand down on a table saw.

Alaina (01:05:42.312) No?

Alaina (01:05:47.617) He tears that shit open. Yes. Bucket's a very thin fruit punch looking blood. I will say that.

Dave! (01:05:49.482) It is just buckets of blood!

Bryan! (01:05:49.55) Yep.

Dave! (01:05:55.25) Mm-hmm. Delicious.

Bryan! (01:05:55.534) Oh yeah, the blood, the blood, yeah, the blood in the movie is a little, yeah.

Dave! (01:05:58.794) And so they could get those big splashy drops.

Alaina (01:06:01.854) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:06:03.314) So yeah, by contrast to Frank's super masculinity and his endless search for higher levels of pleasure, we get Larry injured and weenie as hell. So Frank is big.

Alaina (01:06:09.67) Haha

Dave! (01:06:13.618) Okay, but he's just pouring blood out. She's like, you're fine. Like, bitch, he is not fine. It's like he cut his hand off. Really, it is just pouring on him.

Bryan! (01:06:20.108) Yeah.

Alaina (01:06:21.505) He needs a transfusion at this point.

Bryan! (01:06:23.814) It's a shitload of blood. Yeah. So like, yeah, Frank is basically like later, babe, after they're done. And then and then Larry stumbles into the attic where Julia is having all these memories and coming at her with bloody hand like he wants his mother. Yeah, and her response to this is basically a full body eye roll.

Alaina (01:06:37.011) Ugh.

Alaina (01:06:41.881) Yeah, literally. That would also be fine.

Dave! (01:06:42.614) I mean, to be fair, that's also my response to it.

Bryan! (01:06:45.714) Oh yeah. Seriously, like fucking, I get it guy, but like, not up. Like what the fuck?

Alaina (01:06:51.461) Yeah, just grab a towel. It'll be good.

Dave! (01:06:52.778) Again, I'm telling you, I'm the proxy Clyde Barker in this one, and it's like, oh, Larry again? Ugh. God.

Alaina (01:06:59.882) gross

Bryan! (01:07:01.726) Yeah, so Larry bleeding all over the floor which absorbs the blood. And so with everybody gone from the attic, Kirstie taking Larry to the hospital for stitches, the attic comes alive. The floorboards ooze these nasty looking liquids and the skeletal form erupts from the mass reconstituting itself until it approximates a human being amid all these milky body fluids. Super gross.

Dave! (01:07:22.934) Yeah, you know what? When you don't have a lot of money, just cover everything in goo.

Alaina (01:07:24.277) I love it. Hell yeah.

Bryan! (01:07:27.11) That's, yeah, like I just recently watched these Hong Kong horror movies that the boxers home in and the seventh curse. And those movies make use of like nasty, grody, milky body fluids instead of blood. And for some reason, so much more disgusting. Like I gag watching that stuff.

Dave! (01:07:47.63) I mean, it is why the thing works the way that it does. That movie would look dumb as shit if they weren't just like, I don't know, cover it in grime and goo.

Alaina (01:07:48.417) Oh yeah, way worse. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:07:56.743) Yeah.

Alaina (01:07:57.497) The body fluids that aren't blood are way grosser. Way grosser.

Bryan! (01:08:00.71) Yeah, yeah, super nasty. Way grosser. So later on at a dinner party, Julia is looking bored as hell amongst all these dorky white people bitching about doctors.

Dave! (01:08:11.166) Oh, you mean the Great American Dinner Party where they practice the Great American tradition of the Knight of the Paper Hat? And here's my question, here is my revelation, everybody. Is Hellraiser a Christmas movie?

Alaina (01:08:17.737) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:08:26.19) I, you know what?

Alaina (01:08:26.69) Uh, yes. Ha ha ha.

Dave! (01:08:27.586) Because the night of the paper hat is a Christmas tradition, is it not?

Alaina (01:08:31.161) Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (01:08:31.783) I have never heard of it prior to this movie.

Alaina (01:08:33.906) I think it is.

Dave! (01:08:34.863) It's when you put on the dumb paper hat and you open your Christmas cracker. It's like a holiday thing. So is this a then a Christmas movie?

Alaina (01:08:38.021) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:08:40.971) Oh, Jesus.

Alaina (01:08:44.857) Uh oh, looks like it is. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:08:45.038) You know what? I'm gonna give it to you. I think we've.

Dave! (01:08:47.938) I just made a list of Christmas movies today and there are not a lot of good ones. Christmas horror, there's lots of good Christmas movies. They're all on the Hallmark channel.

Alaina (01:08:51.809) add Hill-Razor to it.

Bryan! (01:08:51.895) haha

Alaina (01:08:56.553) Ha ha ha!

Bryan! (01:08:57.853) Hahaha.

Alaina (01:09:00.041) Never heard of it.

Dave! (01:09:00.234) left the hallmark channel. oh that's not true you have heard of it and you're gonna hear of it again because it's december and you know what that means it is hallmark bingo

Bryan! (01:09:05.33) uh...

Alaina (01:09:06.433) It's true. Hell yeah, Hallmark Bingo. I am ready.

Bryan! (01:09:14.674) So Julia excuses herself, where Kirstie makes eyes at a very English looking fella.

Dave! (01:09:20.958) English? Now what are you talking about? He's an American man, a young American boy.

Bryan! (01:09:23.79) and Johnny Manhattan doing tricks with the cigarettes

Alaina (01:09:24.057) Hahaha.

Dave! (01:09:29.834) Really dangerous looking tricks with a cigarette. Also gay as hell.

Alaina (01:09:29.869) Yeah, that was... and also really yucky. I was like, no thank you.

Bryan! (01:09:31.642) I oh yeah. Also, whenever he does that, I'm just like, oh, oh

Dave! (01:09:40.182) Yeah.

Alaina (01:09:40.698) I know.

Dave! (01:09:49.206) Yeah, but not horrified enough.

Alaina (01:09:51.649) Yeah.

Dave! (01:09:53.166) Because eventually when she learns it's frank, she's just kinda like, oh, thank god. It's just you. You're a puddle of goo, thank god.

Bryan! (01:09:53.5) She.

Alaina (01:09:58.526) Not just a random skeleton up here.

Bryan! (01:09:58.739) Yeah. But he doesn't this is a this is a different suit but I think they use his

Alaina (01:10:06.398) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (01:10:09.929) Yeah.

Dave! (01:10:10.75) I don't think, I think it's this guy's voice because frankly, in the first part, that I think is overdone. It feels overdone because that voice does not come out of him.

Bryan! (01:10:18.594) it is. No, no, he's an English actor but um the but the voice of the guy wearing the suit does not sound anything like the actor in the previous scene but yeah uh so what he explains that uh Larry's blood brought him back to life and that he needs more to be made whole and so uh Kirstie

Alaina (01:10:20.941) Mmm.

Dave! (01:10:39.638) Yeah, also, he's still a jerk. He's still a gross jerk and he's not hot, everybody. Shut up.

Alaina (01:10:42.537) He's such a dick. No.

Bryan! (01:10:45.378) Oh yeah, death did not improve matters.

Alaina (01:10:48.709) No, and usually like having a skeleton element to it can make a guy hotter. Not here, not here. Doesn't work.

Bryan! (01:10:53.832) Hahaha.

Dave! (01:10:55.611) Mm-mm.

Bryan! (01:10:57.458) So, Kirstie and the English lad leave Larry's, and they walk the streets where they spot a homeless dude who were going to...

Dave! (01:11:03.423) The derelict is how he is billed. He is the derelict.

Alaina (01:11:05.564) Oh yes.

Bryan! (01:11:06.783) Yeah. Yeah, so.

Alaina (01:11:08.713) Isn't that what like the creature is too at the end? I think it's called that.

Dave! (01:11:12.19) No, that's the engineer. Oh, the flying thing. Yeah, the flying thing is still, I think he has still the derelict.

Bryan! (01:11:12.383) Yeah. No, no, no.

Alaina (01:11:15.901) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:11:18.927) So yeah, we're gonna see him a few more times. And then Julia has more sexy memories, reminded of when she told Frank that she'd do anything for him. Well...

Dave! (01:11:26.914) and then he jams his fingers in her mouth or something. It's, oh God, Clive Barker.

Alaina (01:11:27.272) Oof.

Bryan! (01:11:30.051) Yeah.

Alaina (01:11:30.277) Yeah, it's a lot.

Bryan! (01:11:34.002) Yeah, well, Larry sleeps next to her like whimpering in his sleep. So yeah, here's Oh, yeah.

Dave! (01:11:34.626) So sexy.

Alaina (01:11:38.229) Yeah.

Dave! (01:11:41.07) He's like kicking his feet like a puppy.

Alaina (01:11:43.189) And he's wearing like those like Scrooge pajamas. Like I'm surprised he doesn't have like the little hat. He doesn't hold the little candle as he walks by. Poor Larry.

Bryan! (01:11:46.44) Hahaha!

Dave! (01:11:48.041) This is old timey cap.

Bryan! (01:11:55.538) So, uh, so, um, Kirstie has a nightmare involving a crying baby and a writhing body under a sh- It grows increasingly bloodier and then down feathers flying all over the place. It's real art.

Dave! (01:12:00.046) Okay everybody, this is another one of those moments. Girl, you didn't need to put this one in the movie.

Alaina (01:12:06.693) I agree.

Dave! (01:12:11.802) I will say, Kirstie looks fucking great in this scene though.

Alaina (01:12:15.133) she's beautiful. I think she's gorgeous but I agree this scene yeah I hate the sound of a crying baby it like stresses me out like it makes me so sad I hate it.

Bryan! (01:12:16.23) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dave! (01:12:18.034) Again, here's someone who looks good soaking wet.

Bryan! (01:12:23.257) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:12:26.507) Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Dave! (01:12:29.257) Oh, that, yes, that, definitely that.

Bryan! (01:12:32.87) Yeah, it definitely, there's, it's like an ice pick in the center of my brain.

Alaina (01:12:36.675) It just like destroys my soul every time I hear it. So I just immediately like

Dave! (01:12:39.682) Does anybody want to guess which person on this call does not have and absolutely does not want children? It's the one who thinks, why are they crying? Why won't they shut up?

Alaina (01:12:43.277) Ha ha

Bryan! (01:12:45.806) Hahaha

Alaina (01:12:50.585) What is going on?

Bryan! (01:12:52.434) So her boyfriend shoots up very suddenly in bed, though it looks like he's...

Dave! (01:12:55.286) No, no, he's not on bed. He's on the floor.

Bryan! (01:12:58.298) I was gonna say, because it looks like he's sleeping on the floor.

Alaina (01:12:58.521) I'm sorry.

Dave! (01:13:00.874) Yeah, I think he's being gentlemanly. Cause she rents a room, she's not like in an apartment. Like she's just got like an SRO kind of room that she's renting. So it's like a single bed, I guess.

Alaina (01:13:01.972) Ah! Oh, look at that man.

Alaina (01:13:07.637) Mmm.

Bryan! (01:13:08.699) Yeah.

Yeah, I guess I guess it would be kind of kind of cramped in the get the tone on there. Yep. So the next day, Julia sets out to pick up a dude at a bar, which she does. Yep.

Alaina (01:13:11.983) Oh.

Alaina (01:13:15.37) A gentleman.

Dave! (01:13:22.682) Oh, this bar. This bar makes me real sad.

Alaina (01:13:24.981) This bar, this outfit, this whole thing.

Bryan! (01:13:28.355) It looks like a it looks like a bar at an airport.

Dave! (01:13:28.414) It is 80s as hell. Yep. That is a hotel bar.

Alaina (01:13:30.593) Yes. Yeah. Which is where you would find one of those guys, I feel like.

Dave! (01:13:37.07) Yeah. And they really go out of their way to make us not care when she kills this man with a hammer.

Alaina (01:13:43.813) No, which is nice of them to do.

Bryan! (01:13:46.764) So when she takes the gentleman home, she eventually shows him up to the attic, which should have been a red flag for this guy.

Dave! (01:13:52.698) Yeah, can we talk about his hair for a minute? Because I know that men in the 80s, and even now, I guess, aren't that obsessed with their appearance, let's say. He has a little tuft of hair in the front, and then he's balding all the way to the back, and he just left the little tuft of hair in the front. Is that a joke? What is that?

Alaina (01:13:55.789) We sure can.

Alaina (01:14:13.493) Yeah, it looked sprayed on.

Bryan! (01:14:14.366) like, for for real, like, as a as a person who has completely lost his hair, there was, there were definitely moments in my life where I was like, can I make this work? I gotta, I gotta hold on to what I, I just gotta like hold on to it and then eventually I was like, you know what, this, I look like a ** and just was like,

Alaina (01:14:19.469) Hmm

Dave! (01:14:27.21) No, you gotta just let go.

Alaina (01:14:28.106) Hahaha!

Dave! (01:14:33.73) Yeah, listen, dudes out there, listen to me right now. If you're losing your hair, just let that shit go.

Bryan! (01:14:39.326) just let it go. Do not do not succumb to fall like to sunk cost. Just you gotta know when to cut your losses. So yeah, what I haven't done up to this point is describe this attic, which looks like an attic from a horror movie. It is dusty and in England, in an English horror movie. It is dusty and nasty. He just immediately sets to taking his clothes off.

Alaina (01:14:39.421) It's true, it looks great.

Alaina (01:14:44.441) Mm-mm.

Alaina (01:14:53.933) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (01:14:54.827) in England.

Alaina (01:15:04.029) Wild.

Dave! (01:15:04.238) And they really go out of their way to make it. His underwear is just like Fred Mertz getting naked. It is like, he looks terrible and dumpy. And it's like, you guys are really going in on this one.

Alaina (01:15:11.217) He's so much. And wasn't he the one that said, like, you didn't change your fucking mind, did you? Like, that's like pissy with her. So I was like, kill him, girl. I was like, let's go.

Bryan! (01:15:12.639) I am

Bryan! (01:15:16.075) I am surprised.

Dave! (01:15:19.97) Yeah! I was like, alright.

Bryan! (01:15:20.16) Yeah.

Yeah. I am surprised that they didn't lean all the way in and give him like sock suspenders. Yeah.

Alaina (01:15:30.053) Yes, I was waiting for those. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's pretty rough

Dave! (01:15:30.282) Yeah, it's real rough. And then his death, Jesus.

Bryan! (01:15:35.662) Yeah. So yeah. So he excuses himself to go to the bathroom. She takes the opportunity to bludgeon him with a hammer from behind leaving to his him to his fate on the floor. And so the original the original version of this scene was shot with the guy naked, which was apparently his idea and the scene where he fell to the floor.

Alaina (01:15:53.049) Oh.

Dave! (01:15:54.166) And apparently, Clark Barker must not have had, he must not have been very confident to be like, why? No. Cause I think he was just like, okay, sure, I guess.

Bryan! (01:15:59.894) Yeah, yeah.

Alaina (01:15:59.933) Yeah, just to be like, no.

Bryan! (01:16:04.43) Yeah, I mean, it probably I mean, he probably was just like, Oh, yeah, that'll be even more shocking. I'm glad you brought this up.

Alaina (01:16:08.815) Mm.

Dave! (01:16:09.374) And again, the MPA was like, well, you can have half his mouth missing or he can be nude, you can't have both. And they were like, well, I guess we're gonna go with the half the mouth.

Alaina (01:16:16.683) You pick.

Bryan! (01:16:16.794) Yeah, yeah, because also.

Alaina (01:16:20.901) Yeah, I would.

Bryan! (01:16:20.974) Yeah, because the original kill scene is she hits him with the claw end of the hammer. And so he hits the he hits the floor with the hammer sticking out of his head. And they were like, no, you can't do that.

Alaina (01:16:25.522) Oh damn.

Dave! (01:16:30.83) Did they restore any of that in that new transfer, that new arrow release?

Alaina (01:16:34.02) Hmm

Bryan! (01:16:34.394) No, no, according to according to Barker, like all of the stuff that was rejected just got like was just treated like everybody in Hollywood treats this stuff. They just throw it out.

Dave! (01:16:43.681) They probably just melted it down and started over.

Alaina (01:16:43.934) Ugh. That's so sad.

Bryan! (01:16:47.158) Yeah. So, uh, yep. This is, uh, it's reshot to what we have now. So, with the man dead, Julia sees herself out while Frank does whatever it is to the body that he needs to do. Yep. And when she, she returns, she finds the corp all desiccated and fucked up. And Frank is standing by the window looking better than before, but still quite messed up. Uh, but gotta give it to you. It's a hell of a suit. Yep.

Dave! (01:16:57.014) Makes gross noises.

Alaina (01:16:58.71) Yeah.

Alaina (01:17:10.604) I love it.

Bryan! (01:17:12.394) So like these there are moments there are moments where the special effects definitely look pretty shabby Like the part where the where the body is kind of coming back together like All right, whatever and the engineer creature Sucks is fucking garbage

Dave! (01:17:23.879) Oh, it's laughable. Yeah.

Alaina (01:17:24.729) Oh my god. The wheels.

Bryan! (01:17:28.45) Yeah, but the this but like this suit is pretty good and it just gets better as the movie as the movie goes on.

Alaina (01:17:32.322) Yeah.

Dave! (01:17:33.382) Did they shoot this whole thing? Is this shot sequentially, in order?

Bryan! (01:17:38.983) I have no idea.

Dave! (01:17:40.182) because they clearly run out of money towards the end. And I wonder if they're shooting it in a particular order because this shit looks good. Yeah, I think they might have.

Alaina (01:17:47.445) And they just used it all up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That makes sense.

Bryan! (01:17:54.731) Yep. So, uh yep. Um I what's the line?

Dave! (01:17:56.866) Are you gonna skip the line?

Dave! (01:18:01.878) The line of the movie, the one that, it is the it's not cranberry sauce of this movie. Come to daddy.

Bryan! (01:18:09.264) Oh shit, you're right. Yes.

Alaina (01:18:09.749) UGH

Dave! (01:18:10.954) Because listen, Hellraiser is gonna try to make Fetch work, and it is not gonna happen, but god damn it, they really go for it, like, nine times.

Bryan! (01:18:14.534) Ha ha ha. No, I've got I've got I've got a note about it at the end because it's so or do they because it's supposed to make you like go. Ah yeah. Yeah. It's super gross.

Alaina (01:18:19.757) They have the wrong character saying it is the problem.

Dave! (01:18:22.51) Yeah.

Alaina (01:18:27.149) it the ick well it's so gross honestly i would have loved to hear julia say it hell yeah

Dave! (01:18:31.57) I would have preferred it if Julia said it.

Bryan! (01:18:35.803) Hahaha.

Dave! (01:18:36.821) And then she just puts a cigarette out in the fucking kitchen floor

Bryan! (01:18:40.218) Yep. So Larry comes home before she's ready. So Julia stashes the dead body in an adjacent room, and then gets ready of Larry by telling him that she feeling unwell.

Dave! (01:18:51.17) Now look, this is when Julia looks her best. She rips her shirt off and she has like this, almost like a bustier underneath. Yeah, it's like she has this kind of like Susie and the Banshees, like late 80s, early 90s Susie and the Banshees look to her. And she looks cool as hell. It's like, why can't she look like that in this movie? Why does she have to look like B fucking Arthur for most of this film?

Bryan! (01:18:57.23) Oh, she's got. Yep. She's got the blood load. The blood spatter on her too. I was like.

Alaina (01:18:59.403) Mmm.

Yeah.

Alaina (01:19:09.149) Yeah, she does. I know.

Bryan! (01:19:18.098) They really do bring that back for Hellraiser 2, like...

Dave! (01:19:20.23) No offense to the Bea Arthur stans out there, I just... You know. And she says, I'm feeling sick, please get me a brandy.

Alaina (01:19:22.624) Yeah, we love a Bea Arthur moment, but...

Bryan! (01:19:25.509) Yep, yep. So.

Yeah, the solution, the solution to that apparently is booze.

Alaina (01:19:29.726) Yeah!

Yeah, and once again Larry is like the sweetest, like just at least like a caring husband. He's like, oh no, can I get you anything? And I'm like, you're the worst, Julia. Damn, get me Brandy.

Bryan! (01:19:38.533) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:19:41.87) Yep. She's like, get me some alcohol. And he's like, yeah, I'm.

Dave! (01:19:45.698) But you know what this is, cause I brought this up in, when we were talking about female characters and we're talking about a Halloween and how particularly gay men are sometimes drawn to kind of bitchier female characters in movies. And I think this is a really good example of it. It's like Julia's fucking terrible. And yet she's the most alluring character in this movie. Partially because she's a really good actor and she looks pretty good throughout the movie, but like.

Alaina (01:20:03.969) Yeah.

Alaina (01:20:09.815) Yeah.

Dave! (01:20:12.482) There's something about her meanness that is like, oh, I know you, I'm familiar with you. Sometimes I am you. And so it's like, I feel like that's really what's going on here is like, you are supposed to kind of like her. Where is the rest of them? You don't give a shit about the rest of these people.

Alaina (01:20:16.697) Yep. I know you.

Bryan! (01:20:16.715) Ahahaha!

Alaina (01:20:25.669) Yeah. Oh, I love Julia. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:20:29.906) Yeah, I'm gonna give you that. I'm definitely like, as she like sinks further and further into evil, I'm definitely into her.

Dave! (01:20:37.686) Because she was very villainous. She was like old school villainous.

Alaina (01:20:38.117) Mm, she's so good. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:20:42.277) she's got this like steely glance that eventually kind of takes over her face. Yeah.

Alaina (01:20:46.291) Yeah.

Dave! (01:20:46.794) This is basically just a, this is a fairy tale. This is the wicked stepmother fairy tale.

Alaina (01:20:51.577) Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (01:20:52.174) Yep. Yeah, I can buy that. So yeah, so back in the attic, Frank tells her that he's going to need a few more dead bodies to feed off of, and then that they need to get the hell out of the house in order to evade a group of people called the Cenobites. Bum bum bum. Oh, yeah.

Dave! (01:21:05.79) And again, he's being real pushy about shit.

Alaina (01:21:08.742) He's also is he wearing the shirt at this point? I was like, why are you wearing a shirt?

Bryan! (01:21:12.602) That's uh, I think that's after the next guy.

Alaina (01:21:14.521) Because it's so uncomfortable.

Dave! (01:21:14.61) Eventually he's wearing a shirt and the shirt is covered in blood. Now theoretically the shirt should be soaked in blood, but everything he touches does not get covered in blood.

Alaina (01:21:19.006) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:21:19.854) I love that. I love that detail.

Bryan! (01:21:27.207) Yeah. I love the bloody shirt detail.

Alaina (01:21:27.613) I love how it looks, but every time I watch it, I'm like, it just feels like when you put something on raw, open skin, you know what I mean? And I'm like, your whole body is just raw. Why are you wearing clothes? Don't wear clothes. Yeah. You're like, ugh. Just be naked for a little while. Live in that world for a little while. I would.

Bryan! (01:21:35.861) Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're

Dave! (01:21:40.598) Like you just got tattooed and you pull your pants up too hard and it's like, ugh.

Bryan! (01:21:43.697) Hahaha

Bryan! (01:21:51.011) So now we cut.

Dave! (01:21:51.515) You're the sexiest man alive, Frank.

Alaina (01:21:53.281) Hell yeah, of course.

Bryan! (01:21:56.134) So now we cut to Kirstie's job. She's a clerk in the most chaotic pet store in the world.

Dave! (01:21:58.894) Oh, in this nightmare pet store that sells monkeys and snakes and apparently a barrel full of crickets.

Alaina (01:22:01.645) The most chaotic. I actually hate this part a lot. Yeah. I could have done without this. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:22:05.848) I hate this scene.

Bryan! (01:22:12.528) Yep. Yeah. Oh, God, I hate it. First of all, this scene adds nothing to the movie. It's just gross and shocking. Yeah. So yeah, she's interrupted. She interrupts a homeless guy from before eating handfuls of crickets and what is objectively a fucked up scene.

Alaina (01:22:17.306) I could have removed easy, yeah.

Dave! (01:22:27.794) Now here's the worst part of the scene. Some of those crickets, they're getting on the floor, they're getting away. You are never gonna find them, but you will hear them all day long. It will drive you insane. That's the real torture. Satan's done waiting indeed.

Alaina (01:22:28.034) Yeah.

Alaina (01:22:33.637) No. They will ruin your life. Yup.

Bryan! (01:22:40.478) So back at the house.

Bryan! (01:22:46.93) So Julia murders another dude for Frank to feed on, and now her makeup and 80s hair has become decidedly more sinister. Frank, now looking even more human, then produces the puzzle box and begins explaining what happened to him. He thought he'd reached the limits of pleasure. I guess.

Alaina (01:22:53.433) Mm-hmm.

Dave! (01:23:03.046) Okay, here's my second gripe about this movie. The pleasure and pain thing. And this is, I think, where the... You have to have a real kind of nuanced explanation of a lot of this shit, because we see an awful lot of pain. We don't see pleasure ever. Like, the Cenobites don't seem all that interested in the pleasure part of what's happening. They're more into the pain part.

Bryan! (01:23:26.202) Well, well, no, no. So I'm about to explain this. So so.

Dave! (01:23:30.626) Is it in the fucking book and not in the movie? Because I swear to God if one more person tells me, well, in the book, I'm gonna throw up in their face.

Bryan! (01:23:36.454) know. No, no, no. So, he, so, he, he finds out about the box and he wants to open it because he thinks that it's going to take him to a like a place of pleasure. It's just going to be rough sex all the time and it's going to be wonderful. Yeah. And and switch blades. Just until to your heart's content but what it ends up doing is it opens up the door and what comes through

Dave! (01:23:51.126) rough sexing jeans all the time. Yup. You know, that's S&M. Yeah.

Alaina (01:23:53.349) switchblades.

Bryan! (01:24:03.938) is this religious order from hell that is that he says we're seekers of the you know the outer reaches of sensation but the thing is that what frank explains is that they've become so detached from humanity that pleasure and pain are basically the same thing to them and

Dave! (01:24:22.582) except nobody ever pursues pleasure. It's always just pain.

Alaina (01:24:22.777) Mm.

Bryan! (01:24:27.194) Yeah, because I mean, fuck, you know, it's a fucking horror movie.

Dave! (01:24:30.55) I think a more nuanced metaphor in this case would be something like in his sort of fervent pursuit of pleasure, you inevitably tip over into the other side. You go too far. It's like eating. If you eat too much, eventually you start to feel disgusting. And if you don't stop, it's just like you get great. That's a more nuanced explanation of that, instead of just like, ah, sex and jeans.

Bryan! (01:24:49.33) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:24:54.91) sure. It's all it's all it's all very it's all very heavily implied. That's the problem. There's there's no this movie could have used a little bit more exposition for sure but yeah I mean

Alaina (01:24:59.851) Yeah.

Alaina (01:25:04.325) Yeah.

Dave! (01:25:04.886) Also, Julia should have like maybe one or two follow-up questions. Nope. She's just like, okay sounds good

Bryan! (01:25:10.939) Yeah, but.

Alaina (01:25:12.281) And this is the part where it's like the I can fix him thing because he's like, I am so insatiable that I opened a puzzle box to open up a hell dimension so that they could like maybe satisfy me and that didn't work and I got spit out somehow. And she's like, I still think I could do it. And it's like, I don't know, Julia.

Dave! (01:25:29.019) Yeah. Julia, yeah. She's got real like, oh, but you don't know what he's like when we're alone kind of energy.

Bryan! (01:25:31.294) I could... Yeah, I could... I could...

Alaina (01:25:37.042) Yes, yes. Like we've all been there, Julia. Yeah, but we all learn, Julia. You are not learning. Damn.

Bryan! (01:25:38.266) Hahaha

Dave! (01:25:39.614) Be like, I do. He is a pile of disgusting, mean goo.

Yeah.

Bryan! (01:25:48.336) Yep. So what we learned is that there are four centibytes. There's the hell priest. We know his pinhead iconic as ever. Then we got the female woman who's she's awesome. Who's

Alaina (01:25:52.371) Woo.

I love her.

Dave! (01:25:56.93) Who, if you've ever listened to the random horror episode about this, I believe Jeffrey Kraner calls her Pam from H.R.

Which I think is so great, because she does have this kind of, like... Most of them are real fucking mangled looking, but she just kind of looks a little bit unimpressed. And she's got some wires coming out of her face, but that's about it.

Alaina (01:26:13.494) Yes!

Bryan! (01:26:17.67) Yep, she's got that awesome, like her throat is cut open. Yeah, I love that. Ooh, yes she does. As she's like, as she's whispering through it. Yeah. And we have the chatterer who we've met you before. His head is a mass of scar tissue. His mouth is cut open and his teeth are endlessly chattering. And then rounding it out is butterball. Great big fat Cenobite in dark sunglasses.

Alaina (01:26:18.025) I love it. Is like torn open. And she touches it very suggestively a lot. Ha ha ha.

Dave! (01:26:26.378) Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious what that is.

Alaina (01:26:28.778) Yeah, it sure is.

Alaina (01:26:43.673) Chatter stresses me out a little bit because you find out in the second one that he's a boy. Like, he's like a 14-year-old or like a 13-year-old. He's a boy. Yes. It's where you get the... Or what is it? No, the third one is the World War II one. But the second one you go... Yeah, and you get to like... And they kill all the Cenobites. Spoiler alert, because don't worry, they come back. But...

Bryan! (01:26:47.602) That he's a boy. Yeah. He's a child.

Dave! (01:26:50.594) Like a child? I vaguely remember the second one. Is that the one with the World War II?

Bryan! (01:26:57.383) Yes.

Dave! (01:27:01.046) back.

Bryan! (01:27:04.132) Oh, that's right, yeah.

Dave! (01:27:04.842) Oh, the second one's a hospital.

Bryan! (01:27:10.342) Yep. Yeah.

Dave! (01:27:12.362) Yeah, there's 8,000 more of these movies.

Alaina (01:27:13.485) But then he gets like, he gets like impaled onto the pillar. And when they get killed, they turn into their human form. And I was like, Whoa, and they never explained it. They're just like, it's a child. And you're like, what the fuck? What do you mean chatter is a child? And they never go back to it. It's always stressed me out. I'm like, what the fuck did that kid do to become chatter? Like what? Give me that story.

Bryan! (01:27:15.675) Yeah, you-

Dave! (01:27:18.884) Oh yeah!

Bryan! (01:27:24.906) never. Yep. Yeah, they just they just they just drop that in your lap unless you deal with it. No.

Dave! (01:27:28.049) Alright!

Bryan! (01:27:36.736) I know.

Dave! (01:27:39.31) See, that's the ambiguity that I think works really well. The other stuff.

Bryan! (01:27:39.64) I know.

Alaina (01:27:43.297) Holy shit.

Bryan! (01:27:43.326) That's my favorite about this is that there's so much like there's like little morsels and seeds that you can just think about endlessly and just ** create your own stories around it. It's it's yeah, it's wild. Um but yeah, so his resurrection Frank said is means that the centibites will come looking for him. So during a storm. Right. She's like I have Frank and he's like that's impossible.

Alaina (01:27:52.166) Yes!

Alaina (01:27:55.511) I'm dying to know.

Dave! (01:28:05.986) Which is weird, because later they don't even know he's gone.

Alaina (01:28:08.441) I know. They're like, what? He's like, fuck that. I just checked on Frank.

Dave! (01:28:11.466) They were like, Frank Hoop? What the fuck are you talking about?

Bryan! (01:28:15.078) Yeah, so during a storm later that night, maybe Frank is pacing around making a lot of noise.

Dave! (01:28:20.674) Yeah, Frank, look, buddy, if you're gonna be up in the attic, but then again, maybe it's just like it's just assumed that all British houses have a phantom in the attic. Cause he is up there banging on the walls, stomping around.

Alaina (01:28:23.98) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:28:33.07) Yep, Larry decides that he has to go check it out and then Julia tries to distract him with her feminine wiles. But he goes up anyways, and he finds the place empty. We however see that Frank has nailed the rats in the attic to the wall for some reason. I don't know. Do not know. Yep.

Dave! (01:28:45.802) Why? Why is he doing that?

Alaina (01:28:47.853) That was really rude because they show you little like bits and pieces of the rats all just like snuggling together sometimes and then they're just like oh by the way he's just gonna nail them to a wall.

Bryan! (01:28:54.988) Yep.

Oh yeah. And then the next scene.

Dave! (01:28:58.022) This feels more like that, like, what's really gross and shocking? Well, you could nail rats to the wall. Why? Who cares?

Alaina (01:29:02.873) Hahaha

Bryan! (01:29:03.33) Yeah, who gives a shit? Yep, so they retire to the bedroom for some mediocre sex while Frank watches from the closet.

Alaina (01:29:06.297) Don't worry about it.

Oof.

Dave! (01:29:11.23) Again, not subtle. He's not subtle. He is standing right behind them, sawing a rat in half. Not subtle.

Bryan! (01:29:13.916) No.

Alaina (01:29:14.229) No.

Alaina (01:29:19.053) No.

Bryan! (01:29:26.259) you know, as if as if you didn't already get the point that this guy is just evil. They're gonna really

Dave! (01:29:32.77) But not even really evil, he just sucks. He's just like your friend's boyfriend. Or you just like, you get it, like they're happy together, whatever, but you really don't want him around. You don't have anything to say to him. And he's always doing weird shit, like kind of being misogynistic. It's that. It's that kind of evil. Yeah. And she's like, no, he's different when we're alone.

Bryan! (01:29:36.026) Yeah. Yep.

Alaina (01:29:36.071) He does suck.

Alaina (01:29:45.042) No.

Alaina (01:29:51.079) And you're always saying you can do better. He's not that hot.

Bryan! (01:29:53.35) Hehehe

Alaina (01:29:57.926) Ha ha

Bryan! (01:29:58.866) So, at dinner, Larry tells Kirstie that he thinks something is up with Julia. She's a nervous wreck and won't leave the house. It's like she's

Dave! (01:30:05.038) This is a really weird conversation for a father and daughter to have.

Bryan! (01:30:08.784) I know, and then he asks her to drop by the house and check on her.

Alaina (01:30:08.951) Yeah

Especially because it seems like Kirstie and Julia do not have a good relationship. So it's like, that's a lot to ask.

Bryan! (01:30:16.386) It's yeah, it's applied to several times throughout the movie that like they don't get along and but every time you see them, she's like perfectly pleasant to her. Both of them are as a matter of fact. So, yeah, so Frank demands another body. Meanwhile, which Julia provides

Alaina (01:30:20.626) Yeah.

Alaina (01:30:24.66) Yeah.

Pretty courteous.

Dave! (01:30:27.42) They're British.

Dave! (01:30:32.546) She goes out and finds the most British-looking man I've ever seen.

Bryan! (01:30:36.098) Is this one, is this one the blonde haired guy?

Alaina (01:30:36.332) I'm sorry.

Dave! (01:30:38.898) No, this is, he's like, this is the, he's kind of like, darker hair. And where is Frank getting all these clothes, by the way? Did he bring them back from hell?

Alaina (01:30:41.017) The one with the glasses. Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (01:30:42.464) Oh yeah.

Alaina (01:30:49.801) Is he taking them from the guys that she's killing?

Dave! (01:30:52.686) Maybe.

Bryan! (01:30:52.774) That's a possibility. But this time, Kirstie is nearby and she sees them entering the house together. So once they're upstairs, Julia hits them with a hammer, but it doesn't kill them. And then a commotion ensues, which Kirstie hears, and she rushes to get into the house.

Alaina (01:30:54.613) Maybe.

Dave! (01:31:07.114) Look, this is the most contrived scene. It was like, how do we move this plot forward? And they're kind of stuck and they're like, maybe Keirste goes to the house and sees her kill somebody. It's like, how else can we smash these people together and get this fucking story back on track?

Bryan! (01:31:17.799) Yeah.

Alaina (01:31:21.751) Yeah

Bryan! (01:31:23.306) So yeah, so Julia hides in an adjacent room while Kirstie makes her way to the attic. Just as she reaches the landing, the nearly dead dude lurches into the hall begging for help. But skinless Frank follows him out and finishes him off in front of her. Then he throws her into the attic room and menaces her doing the come to daddy thing again. No. Not crap. They struggle a bit until she finds the box on the floor.

Alaina (01:31:41.656) Ugh.

Dave! (01:31:43.21) Not cranberry sauce.

Alaina (01:31:44.505) No. I don't like it.

Bryan! (01:31:50.046) Frank demands that she give it to him, but she instead throws it out the window and flees, and then she picks it up on her way out the door, and eventually she collapses on the street and ends up in a hospital.

Dave! (01:31:59.53) Now I'm going to point out the IMDB goofs section for this movie. So Keirsey's running down the street or whatever. She's got blood on her. And she passes two nuns who just keep walking. And the IMDB goof section says that this is a goof because nuns would definitely stop to help her. And it's like, yeah, cause nuns are super helpful. That's not a goof.

Alaina (01:32:22.073) What's gonna say? I don't know about that.

Bryan! (01:32:23.489) Oh, the IMDB goofs are they're a little desperate sometimes. Definitely pretty.

Alaina (01:32:27.641) She's just walking by and the nuns just kind of look at her and you can tell they're just like, oh, you know, not my chair, not my problem. I'm going to keep walking.

Dave! (01:32:29.531) Yeah!

Dave! (01:32:34.376) I'm gonna go on a limb and say, historically, the Catholic Church is not that helpful.

Alaina (01:32:40.325) Hahaha

Bryan! (01:32:43.044) Yeah.

Alaina (01:32:43.177) And that just seems like one of those things that it's like, I don't know. She's got somewhere to be, I think, so I'm just going to let it go. She seems busy.

Dave! (01:32:49.47) She's handling this, whatever it is. She... She knows where she needs to be.

Alaina (01:32:54.55) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:32:54.661) So, so in the hospital, Kirstie is seen over by a doctor who looks like Ron male from Sparks. He gives, he gives her the box that she was brought in with and then they lock her in her room with nothing else to do. She plays with the box until it opens a door to hell.

Dave! (01:33:00.504) Yes.

Alaina (01:33:08.185) Of course. We've all been there. Yeah, she gets real excited though.

Dave! (01:33:09.41) Yep. She doesn't solve it so much as she just pokes at it.

Bryan! (01:33:13.326) Yep. Yeah, what she sees is a seemingly endless stone tunnel extending to the horizon. Yeah, yeah. So for horror movie reasons, she steps inside to the sound of a crying baby.

Dave! (01:33:18.05) This feels so Nightmare on Elm Street, this whole part.

Alaina (01:33:20.789) Yeah, it does.

Alaina (01:33:27.881) Yeah, I hate that.

Bryan! (01:33:29.394) Don't like it. So shortly thereafter, she comes face to face with a terrible rubber monster, one of the movie's worst effects.

Dave! (01:33:30.978) I'm annoyed by it.

Alaina (01:33:32.393) Yeah.

Alaina (01:33:37.537) My god.

Dave! (01:33:37.974) being pushed on a cart that you can actually see underneath it. At one point, you can see a person pushing it.

Bryan! (01:33:42.777) Ugh, it's the worst.

Alaina (01:33:43.762) You can see the wheels! Yes!

Bryan! (01:33:47.258) Now, I don't I don't understand why they did this because again, it well, here's the thing. The original engineer is just a guy. They didn't need special effects. He's just this radiant dude. He's a centabyte. It must have been.

Alaina (01:33:50.393) So good.

Dave! (01:33:51.222) I think they were out of time and they were out of money.

Alaina (01:34:00.653) So that would be much easier.

Dave! (01:34:04.502) This sounds like, this is a producer note. Something bigger, something gory or something grosser.

Alaina (01:34:04.963) Ooh.

Bryan! (01:34:10.302) because the engineer is just this guy who sort of emanates a light that makes it hard to look at. Like that's it. That's presumably.

Dave! (01:34:16.686) Does he also ride on a trolley?

Alaina (01:34:19.245) Hahaha

Dave! (01:34:20.802) Someone behind him just pushing him down the hall.

Alaina (01:34:23.326) It's amazing.

Bryan! (01:34:23.422) Yeah, I do not. It must have been like, no, no. We've got these people who look all fucked up. We gotta have something that looks really fucked up. So, yeah. So, the creature chases Kirstie back the way that she came and when she leaps through the gap in the wall back into the hospital room, she looks behind her and sees that it's a plain old hospital wall but the creature can still be heard behind the wall. So, unable, I don't know because we gotta have, yeah, we gotta, yeah, shut up. Dude, just

Alaina (01:34:30.878) I love it.

Dave! (01:34:44.706) Which again, why?

Alaina (01:34:48.129) Don't worry about it. That's the name of this episode is, Don't Worry About It.

Dave! (01:34:50.885) Just stop asking questions, god damn it!

Bryan! (01:34:52.71) Just shut.

Yeah. No, just shut up. So unable to put the puzzle back to its normal state. We hear the tolling of the bell in the room takes on a sinister cast. And then the first centabyte to appear as the chatter chatterer promptly stuffs his fingers and cares to smile. So, so many. Oh, yeah. And then pin.

Dave! (01:34:55.81) It's not a big deal.

Alaina (01:35:05.517) Hell yeah.

Alaina (01:35:10.329) Cya!

Dave! (01:35:10.402) just jams his fingers aw so- so many fingers and mouths because he just sort of swoops up on her and he's just like oop

Alaina (01:35:13.841) I don't know why

Alaina (01:35:18.869) He does! He just is like, this is what's happening right now, and she just goes with it. Just checking it out.

Bryan! (01:35:20.314) Yep. That pinhead materializes and speaks and it is awesome. This is when he says, please no tears. So waste of good suffering. He is fucking awesome. And that's his voice.

Dave! (01:35:23.502) Looks like are you into this? How about this?

Alaina (01:35:31.834) Ugh.

Dave! (01:35:36.246) He is really fucking cool looking and he sounds awesome.

Alaina (01:35:36.98) Oh, I love it. Oh, he sounds great.

Bryan! (01:35:43.667) Every time he opens his mouth is just brilliant. His lines are awesome.

Alaina (01:35:47.517) It is. He looks amazing.

Dave! (01:35:49.058) Like I don't much care for this movie at all. I think it is worth watching for this scene alone.

Alaina (01:35:53.957) Yes. I also love that he oh he hedges his bets here because he's like maybe I'll leave you alone if you bring me Frank but if you don't bring me Frank I will definitely tear your soul apart. So he's like I win either way here.

Bryan! (01:35:58.363) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:36:03.332) Yeah.

Dave! (01:36:06.506) He's like, because you opened the box. And she's like, well, I didn't really open it. I just touched it. He's like, shush, shush. It opened. It was in your hand, OK?

Alaina (01:36:14.549) Yeah, he's like logistics. I don't care. Yeah. Not worried about how it happened.

Bryan! (01:36:18.642) Yeah, they explained that. Yeah, they explained that opening the box is like making a deal with the devil because Satan ain't waiting.

Alaina (01:36:24.193) Hahahaha

Dave! (01:36:24.874) Nope. Same, same eight way.

Bryan! (01:36:26.37) Simply solving the puzzle means that you have to go with them but Kirstie thinks fast tells him that she knows where Frank is and they can take him back instead of her.

Alaina (01:36:29.229) So good.

Dave! (01:36:35.67) Well, she does- she asks him, who are you? I gotta be honest, his answer to who are you is pretty insufficient. Yeah, under what circumstances are you an angel? I guess that's where I'm going with that. Okay, maybe...

Alaina (01:36:42.945) Demons to some, angels to others. I mean, I mean. He is. I do.

Bryan! (01:36:43.151) Well, that's... Yeah.

Bryan! (01:36:49.97) I don't know. He's definitely an angel to some know what I mean. So back in the house, Frank tells Julia that they need to bail but he needs some new skin if they're going to flee because the thing is like, presumably he's gonna keep like absorbing people until he just turns back into Frank but he just stays all bloody and gory and so they plot to take Larry's skin.

So, Kirstie.

Dave! (01:37:20.782) I remember her protesting a bit more than she actually does in the movie. Like she's kind of like, no I can't- ah fine.

Bryan! (01:37:27.818) Yeah. So yeah, Kirstie escapes from the hospital with the box but arrives at the house too late. She finds Julia in there with Larry. Or is it Larry?

Alaina (01:37:28.03) Yeah

Dave! (01:37:35.958) Yeah, you know it's not Larry, you know it's Frank, because he's so moist.

Alaina (01:37:39.649) Oh, so moist. The perimeter of his flesh is just all bloody. Like, it's wild. Yeah, she never quite... I'm like, you're not questioning all of this? Like, you're not...

Bryan! (01:37:40.271) Yeah. Oh yeah, because his hair is all is all fucking wet.

Dave! (01:37:42.962) Mm-hmm. Yep.

Bryan! (01:37:47.162) Yeah, she should have looked at him and been like, are you okay?

Dave! (01:37:52.374) No! It's just like when Julia sees Frank and she's like, oh no! It's like, come on!

Alaina (01:38:00.14) It's like what's going on? And also why does Frank's voice change into Larry's voice just because he's wearing his skin? I'm like don't you still have your vocal cords and like your... That part does bop. I'm like you gotta explain that to me a little bit.

Bryan! (01:38:00.209) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:38:07.616) Oh yeah, but...

Dave! (01:38:09.915) Okay, see? I was right.

Bryan! (01:38:11.494) see. Yeah. So yeah, Frank, as Larry explains to her that Frank was up in the attic out of control and he had no choice but to kill him. Totally characteristic of Larry's behavior.

Dave! (01:38:24.158) Yep, and then Larry uses Chekhov's catchphrase.

Bryan! (01:38:27.766) Yep. Oh, but not until later, not until later. So when Kirstie demands to see the body, Julia takes her upstairs and locks her in the attic, the skinless corpse of her father. And as soon as the door is shut, the Cenobites are there to collect on their deal. She then

Alaina (01:38:30.539) Uh.

Alaina (01:38:42.161) I love what they say. I love when they're just like, who the fuck did this? Like they were just like, you better tell. It's like parents finding something broken. They're like, you better bring me the person who did this. Yeah. I love it.

Bryan! (01:38:46.822) Hahaha

Bryan! (01:38:53.51) Yeah. So that she flees from them and finds Frank waiting for her at the bottom of the steps. When he utters his sleazy phrase, come to daddy. And that's when she realizes what happened. Not the gore around the edges just

Dave! (01:38:53.511) doesn't he say bring me the one who did this?

Alaina (01:39:10.129) No, not his face literally falling off.

Dave! (01:39:10.579) The fact that he is extraordinarily moist.

Bryan! (01:39:12.998) Yep.

Bryan! (01:39:17.726) She scrapes the skin off his face to escape but is caught by Julia and held there while Frank advances with his switchblade. She gets out of the way just in time for Frank to stab Julia and he feeds off of her and gives chase to Kirstie who is now upstairs. So Kirstie hides in the room adjacent to the attic where the bodies have been stashed. We get a little jump scare of Jesus like I said. When a statue of Jesus falls out of a cupboard.

then stuffed at the back of the room, one of the actual bodies falls on her, pouring a mouthful of maggots on her. Yeah, what grossed me out real easy. Just add maggots. Just oh, yeah, I was gonna say Dario Argento knows what makes me sick. Yeah. So satisfied that Frank has gone. She leaves the room and goes back out to the landing. But Frank was waiting for her in the attic. He draws the knife again, chases her into the attic room.

Alaina (01:39:50.069) Ugh.

Alaina (01:39:53.578) Yeah.

Dave! (01:39:54.698) It is a very Italian moment.

Bryan! (01:40:11.262) But just as it looks like he has her, the Cenobites arrive.

Dave! (01:40:14.698) Now, I don't wanna say I like this entrance because the chatterer is kinda being real cheeky in this moment. He's got the plastic, he's like comes out and he's got like a sheet of plastic over him in this very like Michael Myers as the ghost kinda thing where he's just like, he's like, hey, what do you think, what do you think of this? Is this, is this funny? Is this good? Did I get you? And then he jams his fingers in her mouth.

Alaina (01:40:20.578) Hmm.

Bryan! (01:40:28.893) Yeah.

Alaina (01:40:32.169) I love that! What do you think of this? Make an assessment.

Bryan! (01:40:33.613) No.

Bryan! (01:40:39.282) I, but I do, I definitely do. I love the way that the Cenobites conduct themselves where it's just all business. Yeah, fully in control.

Alaina (01:40:44.41) Yes. I love that.

Dave! (01:40:47.478) I feel like they lose that as the series goes on.

Alaina (01:40:50.511) They do.

Bryan! (01:40:50.714) Well, yeah, well, eventually they lose the centibytes writ large, and it's just a pinhead in these movies. But yeah, like going forward, and then like, I think the third one is when there's like a guy with a CDs in his head. And there's like a guy with a camera in his head. Yeah, yeah, like, eventually, that shit just gets

Alaina (01:40:54.401) Mmm.

Alaina (01:41:02.321) Yep. And he uses them as like throwing stars. Yeah, I hated that a lot.

Dave! (01:41:02.926) Yup.

Dave! (01:41:07.778) That one is one of the worst. That's the space one, isn't it?

Alaina (01:41:10.365) I love that movie. No, that's the third one is the World War II one, right? Yeah. The third one is fun because it's just reckless. And you get to see Pinhead before he was Pinhead, and I'm for that. But he's so handsome.

Dave! (01:41:13.846) fourth one is this.

Bryan! (01:41:14.214) That's the space one is the fourth one. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:41:23.339) It's got its moments.

Yeah. Just.

Dave! (01:41:28.918) and he looks very similar just without pins in his head.

Yes. I'll give you that.

Bryan! (01:41:34.834) You love a British, you love a British officer. Yeah, and then.

Alaina (01:41:37.505) Who do? Who doesn't?

Dave! (01:41:40.318) I would say that is a very true statement about you. You do love a sort of stately British man. Not your husband, but I mean, he's stately. He's not British.

Alaina (01:41:47.083) Yeah.

No, but he looks like he could be. Yeah, but he looks like he could be. People think he's European all the time. He has a weird accent. Some people always are like, where are you from? And he's like, Massachusetts. He does. If you hear him talk, he used to get it all the time. People would be like, where are you from in Europe? And he was like, Massachusetts. Like, I don't know.

Dave! (01:41:57.166) Okay.

Thanks.

Dave! (01:42:03.21) He does not have a weird accent. Yes.

Dave! (01:42:13.97) I have had several conversations with him, and never once have I thought, well, you seem British.

Alaina (01:42:19.053) I don't think British, but people thought he was like some form of European. Yeah, like any kind of... Exactly. Because he kind of looks like he could be like Norway. I mean, he is Norwegian. So there's that.

Bryan! (01:42:22.546) like Dutch.

Dave! (01:42:24.78) By way of the South Shore.

Bryan! (01:42:26.27) But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but

Dave! (01:42:35.47) Yes.

Bryan! (01:42:38.214) So, uh, yep, so chains with hooks erupt from everywhere and they hook Frank all over again. And then he utters the phrase, Jesus wept, which apparently in the script was just, fuck you.

Alaina (01:42:50.211) But he didn't want to swear. The guy who plays Larry. What's his name?

Dave! (01:42:50.302) I mean, why? Ah, yes.

Dave! (01:42:56.526) Scorpio.

Bryan! (01:42:57.026) Oh, yes, Scorpio.

Alaina (01:42:58.393) Yeah, he doesn't like swearing. And so he didn't want to swear, so he ad-libbed that, because that is apparently like... because I didn't know what Jesus wept really meant, so I started looking it up.

Dave! (01:43:00.526) Oh, come on!

Dave! (01:43:08.146) It feels like a very italic, it feels like a very European saying.

Alaina (01:43:12.465) I think it's a peep. Some people use it in place of like cursing. Like they'll say it like that.

Bryan! (01:43:12.475) Yeah.

Dave! (01:43:17.55) But he does that disgusting thing with his tongue first. So gross. Ugh. And then his head explodes.

Bryan! (01:43:18.104) Yep.

Alaina (01:43:21.389) Yes. So it's also like a mocking thing, I think. Yeah. It's so good.

Bryan! (01:43:22.143) Ah, yeah.

Bryan! (01:43:26.938) Yep. Oh god, I love that because they also they it's like the chains with the little hooks and then there's this big one that's just like ripping its way up his back. Oh, it's so

Alaina (01:43:36.719) Yep.

Dave! (01:43:37.166) Apparently that scene was originally quite a bit gory.

Bryan! (01:43:41.018) Yep. Yeah. So with Frank dealt with the centibytes chase Kirstie, she finds Julia's body all hooked up on the chains in the bedroom, clutching the puzzle box which she takes as the female slowly gives chase. And now with pinhead looming over her, she resets the box pan banishing at least those two centibytes from the house as the house is collapsing around her. And then her

Alaina (01:43:41.466) Wow. Shocked.

Dave! (01:44:04.802) for reasons.

Bryan! (01:44:05.534) it yeah and then her dumbass boyfriend shows up just in time to almost get killed by butterball. I love that shirt because it looks like it's hand painted.

Alaina (01:44:07.477) Obviously.

Dave! (01:44:10.642) in the ugliest shirt I've ever seen.

Alaina (01:44:10.776) Yeah.

Yes.

Dave! (01:44:17.498) That feels like it is a Fright Rags exclusive waiting to happen.

Bryan! (01:44:23.494) Yeah. Come to Spirit Halloween 2024.

Alaina (01:44:23.67) love it.

Dave! (01:44:25.558) Here we go.

Alaina (01:44:26.265) I'm sorry.

Bryan! (01:44:27.942) So, yeah. And now, just like in the movie Elves, where the character's name is Kirstie, but Steve, the dumb boyfriend, just as Grizzly Adams does in that one, he calls her Christy. And it's just in there.

Alaina (01:44:40.265) No, it's just there.

Dave! (01:44:41.458) Yeah, but in elves they don't really try that hard. They give it a pretty solid go in this one.

Bryan! (01:44:44.953) Hahaha.

Yep. And so as they're about to leave the house, they're attacked by the engineer and his profoundly crappy appendages.

Alaina (01:44:54.497) He punches Steve in the face like straight up. It's so funny. I laugh out loud every time.

Bryan! (01:44:56.446) the Oh and there's something that he's uh oh she's trying to fix the box and he like tries to take it and do it for her and she's like get the ** away from me. Yeah. Pat this movie passes the Bechdel test. Yeah and so they eventually they fixed the box completely banishing the engineer.

Dave! (01:44:58.614) Yeah.

Alaina (01:45:06.073) He goes to take it. She's literally like, fuck you, I got it. I love it. Yeah, like, who are you?

Dave! (01:45:08.962) Yeah. You don't have any experience with this. I am skilled at solving this puzzle box. It really does.

Alaina (01:45:18.218) It does.

Bryan! (01:45:23.938) And so now the house completely consumed by flame apparently it's just like piles of burning rocks.

Alaina (01:45:30.777) Oh no!

Dave! (01:45:31.735) Ugh.

Bryan! (01:45:33.018) and Kirstie throws the box on the fire but the uh the ah no not again

Dave! (01:45:34.658) Curses!

Alaina (01:45:35.447) We're right there!

Dave! (01:45:38.304) Oh, well these are pros on a very, I don't know, jovial freeze.

Alaina (01:45:43.865) It did.

Bryan! (01:45:44.378) Really? Did this happen again?

Dave! (01:45:46.476) Oh man.

And they're so... My landlord is upstairs doing something very noisy. He's been doing it all night. He was up there until like two or three in the morning last night, just stomping around. I'm so fucking tired of this.

Alaina (01:45:59.933) What? Oh, that would piss me off so much. Yeah, that sucks.

Dave! (01:46:06.849) I'm like, I'm starting to, well, not starting, I do wish we had just moved, this is so.

Alaina (01:46:11.63) Ugh, because that's ridiculous.

Bryan! (01:46:11.971) Am I back yet? No, I'm still frozen.

Dave! (01:46:14.218) Yep. But I think it's going to end soon. Someone's supposed to move in, so.

Bryan! (01:46:18.618) Fuck.

Alaina (01:46:19.802) I hope so. Hopefully it's someone quiet.

Dave! (01:46:22.734) It's like a family, I think. Yeah. I'm a little thrilled.

Alaina (01:46:24.965) Oh boy. Like, oh lord.

Dave! (01:46:32.618) I try not to... it's just one of many things weighing on me and pushing me to the edge of sanity these days. They seem quite... it's like an older guy and his daughter and her two children, but they're teenagers. So it's not like they're super loud. I mean, it can't be any worse than what they're doing all week, all the time here, so...

Alaina (01:46:39.937) Maybe it'll be great.

Alaina (01:46:47.481) Oh, okay. So that could be, yeah.

Alaina (01:46:54.549) And I feel like teenagers just lounge around all day. Like they're not gonna be loud in every way.

Dave! (01:46:59.73) I'm hopeful because this noise is just too much. I can't. I'm so damn tired. I'm so tired.

Alaina (01:47:04.833) Cause fuck that. Cause fuck that noise. Yeah.

That's dumb as hell.

Dave! (01:47:14.711) Where are you sitting?

Alaina (01:47:14.841) It's like when our neighbors have a crazy, I'm in Mikey's seat. Cause he set up this so much better.

Dave! (01:47:18.697) Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah.

Alaina (01:47:24.689) So after this, after we're done, I'm going to like, Lysol and bleach everything in this room.

Dave! (01:47:30.85) If I get COVID because of you, I'm gonna be pissed. Oh, you're back.

Bryan! (01:47:35.08) Yeah, I'm back. This what the fuck this is driving me fucking nuts. I just never happened before. Anyways. All right, let's just pick this back up. Christy about to leave the house. Oh yeah, so the house is consumed by flame. Kirstie throws the box on the fire, but the homeless guy from before shows up and he reaches in. Yeah, the derelict. He reaches into the fire. What they call it in the peanut butter solution or ruby dub.

Alaina (01:47:35.737) I'm like hello.

Dave! (01:47:47.042) FrightRacks exclusive.

Dave! (01:47:56.673) The Gerolites.

Alaina (01:47:58.13) No.

Dave! (01:48:03.594) Yeah. Yes.

Alaina (01:48:04.545) My god, that movie.

Dave! (01:48:07.971) I don't know.

Bryan! (01:48:08.14) So he reaches into the fire to take it and then he turns into this big winged monster that flies away.

Dave! (01:48:14.123) is the most heavy metal ending you could ever come up with.

Alaina (01:48:16.015) and it is and they are pretty unfazed like they just which i guess after you've seen all you've seen yeah

Bryan! (01:48:16.816) It's pretty gnarly.

Bryan! (01:48:21.886) at this point, like, yeah, like they are severely traumatized. I think the next movie just picks up and they're just like, yeah, of course, she's gonna be in a mental hospital.

Dave! (01:48:28.59) Yeah, I'm sure she's probably just like, well, I guess what did I think was gonna happen if I threw it into the fire? I don't know, big Ronnie James Dio dragon, I guess.

Alaina (01:48:29.397) Yeah, they're just like, yep. Yeah, I guess so.

Bryan! (01:48:34.746) Yeah.

Bryan! (01:48:38.596) So the box is found back on the table in the busy Asian market as another sweaty dude buys it. Cut to black, roll credits.

Dave! (01:48:46.826) Hey, yeah, well, I've got a question. I've got a question for all y'all, and Alayna, I'm going to start with you, because you're the guest. So, you've seen this movie many times. How do you think this movie still holds up today?

Alaina (01:48:48.886) What a movie.

Alaina (01:48:53.799) Ask me.

Alaina (01:48:58.782) I have.

Alaina (01:49:03.541) It's, you know, it's hard to say. For me, it's hard to say on my side because I have like a nostalgia thing attached to it. But I can say from looking at it, I had John watch this movie for the first time ever. He had never seen it. He fucking hated it. Like he like, like 15 minutes into the movie, he was like, do we have to finish this though? And I was like, yes, we do. He was like, it's ugly. And he was like, I hate all these people.

Bryan! (01:49:19.878) Wow.

Dave! (01:49:25.71) Because he was like, it's so fucking ugly, I cannot look at it.

Alaina (01:49:31.797) Like I have no connection to any of these people. He was so mad and I was like, what do you mean? I was like, this is amazing. He's not a super horror movie guy. So like you can get him into certain ones. You just never know which one's going to hit. So I'm always trying different ones with him because sometimes it's like shocking what hits for him. This favorite one. No, he's never seen that. You paused like, no.

Bryan! (01:49:36.036) Is he not a horror movie guy?

Bryan! (01:49:45.141) Ah yeah.

Dave! (01:49:49.686) Weirdly, he loves Cannibal Holocaust.

Bryan! (01:49:54.556) Oh, I was I I'm over here. Like if you yeah. Yeah, you guys were you I know looking at me. You guys were probably like, did he just freeze again? Because like really?

Dave! (01:49:57.25) that's not a movie you share with people unless you really want to upset them

Alaina (01:50:04.257) Because you just went like into paralysis. No. You're like, wow, that's a lot. But no, he was not, this was not for him. So when I think about it, and Ash watched it for the first time this year with me. I made her watch it. And she was kind of like half in, half out with it, but she was kind of like, what's going on? So I don't know if it holds up for everyone.

Bryan! (01:50:28.584) I got to wonder if it really is like, just if it just has a lot of the cache that it does because of nostalgia. Because also, like, it's kind of like what he said at the beginning, where like, this is sort of like where you sort of start to feel like you're remembering everything. But like this period, like the late 80s, for me, like I was just becoming a teenager at the time. And so like,

Alaina (01:50:35.593) Mm. Yeah.

Bryan! (01:50:53.62) like this is when there was all of a sudden like a glut of horror movies and sort of like all of a sudden like my parents don't really care as much as they used to about like what I'm watching and so like all of a sudden I'm seeing everything for the first time and this was definitely among them because this was like one of the holy grails. And so like I got to wonder if it's just like it.

Alaina (01:51:11.065) Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (01:51:16.736) If you've never seen it before, you didn't really grow up with it. If it's going to have the same sort of effect on you.

Alaina (01:51:22.473) Yeah, I think that's the thing. If you didn't grow up with it, like if it wasn't a part of you already, it might be a strange thing to watch.

Bryan! (01:51:28.108) Yeah. Yeah, because I told him.

Dave! (01:51:30.722) gonna I'm gonna be the outlier again here. I'm gonna tell you what I think this movie it is very much of its time it feels of its era. And yes, I think everything you guys are saying are true. Thematically, I think this reads better today than it did that. It works better as a story because that new one that reboot is essentially the same story more or less. And they're able to do with it what he probably wanted to do with it that

Alaina (01:51:41.365) Mm-hmm.

Alaina (01:51:49.349) Yeah, I could agree with that.

Alaina (01:51:59.637) Mmm.

Dave! (01:52:00.142) feels like a more modern story now. It's just that it is stuck in its era and it is confined by its era, by its budget and by interference from people who aren't clibbers.

Bryan! (01:52:12.428) Yeah. Like I think that if he had his way, this movie would be way more explicit in terms of its sexuality, not just as violence, but like it would have been a much more frank movie than it is. Because what is definitely I'm definitely with you that what is presented as like transgressive, edgy sex is like.

Alaina (01:52:12.877) That's true. That makes sense.

Alaina (01:52:18.349) Hmm

Dave! (01:52:32.469) Yeah. It's like asking an evangelical person to describe SMM to you. Like, that's what you get. You get this real like, oh!

Alaina (01:52:32.545) Hehehe

Bryan! (01:52:36.84) Yeah, there's, yeah, there's a switch blade and, you know, some, yeah, you know. Yep. So...

Alaina (01:52:36.994) Yeah. Watered down like

Yeah, that makes sense. I also, I had read that um Pinhead, which I kind of love, Pinhead was supposed to be in Freddy vs Jason.

Bryan! (01:52:53.988) there was there was there was oh god that well that made sense because they were trying to get they're trying to do Hellraiser in one of those crossovers. Yeah. So there was at one point before uh what is it Halloween Resurrection was the last one before the green ones. Yeah. So before they made that

Dave! (01:52:54.318) Oh, there were so many, there was supposed to be so many crossovers.

Alaina (01:52:55.809) They were going to be sent to hell and he was going to be there. I kind of want to love that.

Dave! (01:53:03.178) Well, Dimension owned Hill Raiser for a while.

Alaina (01:53:05.196) Yeah.

Dave! (01:53:14.933) Yes.

Bryan! (01:53:18.904) they were trying they were like, well, what if we did this with Halloween also like, like Michael Myers versus blah, and they were like, Oh, well, what if Michael Myers is like a sex pervert, and he runs into pinhead. And so like, there was at least a script treatment for that movie made before they put up before they put a poll on like the Halloween movies website. We're like, Hey, fans, what do you think of this? And everybody was like, fuck that. Yeah. So yeah, we dodged.

Alaina (01:53:33.657) That would've been hilarious.

Alaina (01:53:41.193) Freddie was like, no thank you. I was just shocked. I was like, imagine if that was the end of Freddie versus Jason.

Bryan! (01:53:48.3) Hahaha

Dave! (01:53:49.682) The verses, that is the real, that's the pinnacle of, that's like you know horror was over, that era was done, is like, we've got them battling each other, like Jesus Christ. And then we get like nine years of like really shitty reboots.

Alaina (01:54:00.057) That movie is unbelievable.

Alaina (01:54:05.937) Hahaha.

Bryan! (01:54:06.908) Yeah. But uh yep. Hellraiser everybody. I definitely I you know I'll tell you what I definitely doing this episode I definitely gained a much greater appreciation for it like

Alaina (01:54:11.667) Hahaha

Bryan! (01:54:19.764) I just, I like it better than I did before, I'd say. Like it's definitely, it definitely grows on me every time I watch it. I like the sequel, I think a little bit more than this, just because it kind of opens the book a little wider. There's a little bit more to know about. Like we find out that there's, yeah, there's more centibytes, there's more boxes. There's like, yeah, there's a whole thing. But like I said, that remake they did on Hulu is so good.

Alaina (01:54:31.769) Mmm. More Cenobites.

Mm-hmm.

Bryan! (01:54:45.964) Um, and I don't know, I don't know if that's like a hot take or anything like that. I know people are real. Yeah, like I

Dave! (01:54:49.226) No, I think it was pretty well received. It's a more cohesive narrative. It feels like it's, you get the story from beginning to end. There's not a lot of like kind of weird unanswered bullshit or like stuff that's kind of gratuitous things that are stuck. There's a little bit of that, but there's not a lot of it. Like there is in this movie. They really lean in, I think because it's late eighties and horror is kind of dying by this point. I think there's a lot of that dumb bullshit in this that they don't do in the new one. And it feels, it just feels like a.

like a better, it's a more thoughtful version of the story.

Bryan! (01:55:20.504) Yeah. Yeah, definitely do so because it's I enjoyed it tremendously. You can still get it. I wish I wish there was like a physical media version of it that I can get. I don't believe I don't believe there is because it was like a Hulu thing. You know, and they don't Yeah, they don't they don't they don't do that kind of thing. But anyways, Elena, thank you so much for joining us. This has been Yeah, this has been great. It's been great. So what do you got going on? Where can people find you and all that?

Alaina (01:55:20.925) I wanna watch it. Hmm.

Dave! (01:55:30.284) Is there not?

Alaina (01:55:41.549) Thanks for having me. This is awesome.

Dave! (01:55:48.642) Do you want people to find you?

Alaina (01:55:48.765) Oh man, I usually... No. I usually make Ash do this part because she knows all our social media. So I think you can find Morbid Podcast anywhere. We're on Instagram. I don't know where else we are. I think we're on TikTok too, but I don't think we do anything else. But you can listen to us anywhere. And we have the re-watcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where we are re-watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Ash for the first time, me for the hundredth time.

Bryan! (01:55:51.62) I'm sorry.

Bryan! (01:56:06.779) Ha ha ha.

Alaina (01:56:18.937) And you can also follow our horror movie podcast with our friend Caleb called Scream. And you can look out for my second book coming out in the near future. And I will have a date soon for that, hopefully.

Bryan! (01:56:35.435) Alright. Alright, well thank you so much. We'll be back in a week with Silent Night, Deadly Night.