Bryan!: You're listening to Bring Me the Axe. I'm Brian White, one half of this morbid equation, and I'm joined by my co-host and actual brother, Dave White. Dave, how you doing?

Dave!: Hey, yo Angela, why you so

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: fucked up?

Bryan!: wait, quea?

Dave!: Hehe!

Bryan!: So we probably grew up in neighborhood video stores and the steady diet of utter garbage that those shops provided us with continues unabated to this day. There's no one else I enjoy chopping it up with more about trashy movies and Dave. Just before we get into it a little housekeeping if you want to keep up with us between episodes. You can also find us pretty much on all the socials by searching Bring Me the Axe Horror Podcast. Now we've also got a sweet website now at bringmediaxe.com You listen to all our past shows there and read the transcripts, if that's the sort of thing you're into. You can also contact us directly at bringmetheaxpod at gmail.com with any questions, comments, or suggestions. Do let us know if there's a movie that you love and would like to hear us give it the business. Lastly, if you like what you hear, you can subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. You'd be doing us a favor by leaving us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Just want to get that all out of the way right at the top of the show. So my god, have I been looking forward to this one. pretty much since we started this pod, I have been looking forward to doing this one. So let's give you a little taste of what's to come. Dear Mom and Dad, I've been at a sleep-away camp Yeah, sleepaway

Dave!: Wow.

Bryan!: camp.

Dave!: This

Bryan!: That's

Dave!: movie

Bryan!: a hell

Dave!: is

Bryan!: of

Dave!: so...

Bryan!: a trailer.

Dave!: This is so, so damn sleazy.

Bryan!: It's, it really, it's, it's really something unto itself. Like, I don't think that, I can't think of another movie that even approaches how fucking crazy this movie is. It's a.

Dave!: It's like, what if, what if Driller Killer was starring children and was like weirdly sexy as well?

Bryan!: Yeah, oh my God. Yep, so let's run the facts. This came out in 1983. So some other years, some other movies that were released that year. This was a big Stephen King year. This was the year that The Dead Zone came out, Christine and Cujo. And we also had Psycho 2

Dave!: Hey,

Bryan!: and

Dave!: not a bad film.

Bryan!: Videodrome. Have you seen Psycho 2?

Dave!: I have seen all of the psycho films.

Bryan!: No shit,

Dave!: The

Bryan!: because

Dave!: second one,

Bryan!: I've only seen

Dave!: second

Bryan!: up

Dave!: one's

Bryan!: to second

Dave!: pretty

Bryan!: two.

Dave!: good.

Bryan!: It's pretty good, right?

Dave!: Third one,

Bryan!: Yeah, is that the one with Olivia Hussey?

Dave!: Uh, uh, yeah, no, the third was Jeff Fahey and maybe it is Olivia Hussey. Jeff

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: Fahey and Dennis France is in it.

Bryan!: Yeah, that might be

Dave!: He's

Bryan!: the

Dave!: like

Bryan!: one. It's

Dave!: the

Bryan!: the

Dave!: scumbag.

Bryan!: one where he's calling into the radio show, right?

Dave!: I think that's the fourth one. I know the fourth one is the origin story with Lori Petty and Bud Court.

Bryan!: Oh, good God.

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: Yep. So, cast and crew. So this was directed by a guy named Robert Hiltzik, who like a lot of the directors that we feature on this pod did nothing else after this, which is not entirely true because he directed a sequel to this movie in 2003. but he also wrote numerous unproduced scripts throughout the eighties, like straight up until like 1989. And it looks like after like just a long dry period of none of his movies get picked up, he just kind of abandoned film and like either went into law or like, okay, yeah.

Dave!: Yeah, he's a lawyer.

Bryan!: Cause he's also, one of the things I noticed is in the credits of the movie, he's, his name is on an accounting firm that like did the books for this movie. So I was like, it's either law or accounting that he went into. But yep, he came back once. He also, he had no idea that this movie had any audience whatsoever. And it was a surprise to him that, you know, it had gained cult status. And so after that, and that was about the time that the guy from, I think it's called Sleepaway Films, sleepawaycampfilms.com sort of tracked him down

Dave!: Name

Bryan!: and was

Dave!: really

Bryan!: like,

Dave!: grabs ya, doesn't it?

Bryan!: yeah. He was like, I guess. He emailed him, he's like, hey, you know that this movie's like a real hot cult movie item. And he's like, had no idea. And so after that, he put in like that, I think it's called return to sleep away camp. I'm told it's terrible.

Dave!: It is, it's from 2008, it's fucking garbage.

Bryan!: Yeah. So cast, obviously the lead is Philissa Rose. She plays Angela and she seems like the sweetest lady in the world. I follow her on Instagram. And

Dave!: She's

Bryan!: she

Dave!: also

Bryan!: seems

Dave!: about,

Bryan!: to.

Dave!: she's about as Long Island as a person can get.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah,

Dave!: She

Bryan!: she

Dave!: like

Bryan!: seems.

Dave!: she's it's like her and that who is the Long Island medium? It's like those

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: two. Those two represent Long Island.

Bryan!: yeah, she seems to be like permanently on vacation with her kids. If she's not at a con doing signings, she just seems to be living her best life. And ever since Sleepaway Camp emerged as a cult fave, she's been acting in a ton of schlock and seems to be just having a great time. Because after this, she did a couple of TV things and a couple of small roles. And then that was it until like 2008 or so.

Dave!: I mean, where do you go after this movie?

Bryan!: I this

Dave!: It's

Bryan!: really

Dave!: all downhill.

Bryan!: this really sets a weird precedent So we've also got Jonathan tersten. He plays Angela's cousin Ricky He stayed reasonably active since being a child actor. What the fuck?

Dave!: You got a really angry animal it sounds like.

Bryan!: Yeah, he just like runs around down here howling, looking for the other cat. So,

Dave!: Why you shouldn't

Bryan!: Jonathan,

Dave!: have cats.

Bryan!: no, they're the best. So, Jonathan, okay, starting again. Jonathan Tearston who plays Angela's cousin Ricky, stayed reasonably active since being a child actor in after school specials. And a movie from a little ways back called Toilet Zombie Baby Strikes Back. And so like lastly, an actor of note is Mike Kellan, who plays the camp owner Mel. He was a busy actor between stage TV and movies beginning with the 50s. And this was his last movie because he died the same year.

Dave!: And you know what? It's probably for the best.

Bryan!: This was his swan song.

Dave!: You really shouldn't say it at all. I mean, there's one other person there is Karen

Bryan!: Oh.

Dave!: Fields as Queen and icon Judy.

Bryan!: I know, I know. Yeah, so this guy, Mike Kellan, he was dying of lung cancer during the shooting of this film and he died several months before the movie came out. Yeah, also Christopher Collet, he plays Paul. He went on to do a couple of things in the 80s and like in the 90s and now he does a ton of voice acting stuff. He did a movie, I think the movie he did after this, no, after he did a movie called Firstborn and then he did a movie called The Manhattan Project, which is one that I liked. Quite a bit about a kid who like it was like a really smart kid who builds an atomic bomb for like a science project It's a pretty

Dave!: I vaguely

Bryan!: decent

Dave!: remember

Bryan!: movie.

Dave!: that.

Bryan!: It's it's not

Dave!: It's

Bryan!: bad

Dave!: not a weird, like, kid science shit in the 80s.

Bryan!: It's everything that came, everybody was trying to make an ET movie where a smart kid runs away from the government. So,

Dave!: And that's basically just now.

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: America 2023.

Bryan!: Yep, we're all running from the fucking government. So notes, the website, like I said, sleepawaycampfilms.com is a major source for any trivia about the movie. I'll link it in the show notes. It's a pretty exhaustive website. This movie was made on a budget of less than a half a million dollars and it turned

Dave!: Yeah, it's like

Bryan!: over.

Dave!: 350,000

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: or something.

Bryan!: yeah, that's a, I mean, even by the

Dave!: And

Bryan!: time that's a

Dave!: boy

Bryan!: very small

Dave!: does it

Bryan!: amount.

Dave!: show.

Bryan!: I... I would say given the size of the camp, like this looks like an active camp, like they had

Dave!: It

Bryan!: to

Dave!: is.

Bryan!: pay those kids. So, you know, like they really got a lot of bang for their buck, like,

Dave!: Well,

Bryan!: I mean, they

Dave!: I

Bryan!: must

Dave!: think

Bryan!: have.

Dave!: they had to play the... they had to pay the SAG kids. Probably not the other kids.

Bryan!: Eh, like scale or something like that. But yeah, I mean, but it turned over 11 million in the initial theatrical run. It's probably in the hundreds of millions now. I mean, it's just, it's such an item. There are four sequels in a twisted chronology. It gets way more complicated than any of these movies need to be. The next two were shot back to back, and they pick up at camp with adult Angela played by Pamela Springsteen, which is Bruce's sister. And I've never seen any of the sequels. I hear the second one is good.

Dave!: Second one is pretty good. Third one, I've never

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: seen the fourth one.

Bryan!: So yeah, the fourth one, well, it depends on what you mean by the fourth one because the fourth one went into production and it stalled when the studio went bankrupt. So they only had shot about a half an hour of footage and it just sat in a vault forever. And then in 2003, after Hiltzig found out about like this, he directed a fifth sequel that I just talked about. And then after that, So his version, I think, Return to Sleepaway Camp is officially part four. And then somebody just cut up all of the previous movies and used it as like memories and dream sequences to kind of fill out the actual part four

Dave!: I don't

Bryan!: to

Dave!: know,

Bryan!: like

Dave!: the

Bryan!: a

Dave!: old

Bryan!: seven.

Dave!: Silent Night Deadly Night 2 treatment.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, so it's like 30 minutes of film plus all this archival footage, so it's barely a movie. Then that came out in 2013, I think. So part four is actually part five. Part five is actually part four. It's a whole thing. A sixth sequel was written, but never shot. And there were plans to reboot the whole thing. Like again, back in 2013, about the time when like reboots were kind of all the rage. Thank God it

Dave!: The

Bryan!: never

Dave!: fact

Bryan!: happened.

Dave!: is, you just need the one. Just watch the one.

Bryan!: This is all you need, man.

Dave!: If you

Bryan!: I mean,

Dave!: wanna watch the second one, okay, fine. But

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: you really just need the one.

Bryan!: This movie is an embarrassment of riches. Like it's

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: got everything. Ha ha

Dave!: It is confusing, and it is

Bryan!: ha.

Dave!: very offensive in all the hilarious ways.

Bryan!: It's it's it really gives pieces of run for its money.

Dave!: Yeah, it really

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: does. And I think that's a good segue into just acknowledging that I think this is probably one of the most divisive horror films ever made.

Bryan!: Mm-hmm.

Dave!: A lot of people find it transphobic, they find it homophobic. Personally, I do not find it to be either of those things. And we can get into those scenes when we get there and talk a little bit more about them. I think it's pure exploitation in some kind of unsavory, unimpressive ways.

Bryan!: Very,

Dave!: But.

Bryan!: very unseemly, like for

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: sure.

Dave!: but I mean, having said all that, I think it is, anyone who does feel like this movie is offensive or transphobic, it is easy to understand why they would feel that way. I think that's a fair criticism. So, you know, none of the jokes or anything we say are meant to sort of undermine the very serious nature of that.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, it's

Dave!: Otherwise,

Bryan!: prickly. Yeah,

Dave!: yeah.

Bryan!: we're gonna spend the whole time just like apologizing. There is a spin-off short film called Judy where Karen Fields

Dave!: And

Bryan!: plays

Dave!: it is

Bryan!: the...

Dave!: surprisingly good.

Bryan!: Is it? Cause it's by the guy who runs the Sleepaway Camp Films

Dave!: Is

Bryan!: website.

Dave!: it really?

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: It's on the Screen Factory Blu-ray.

Bryan!: Oh, no shit, so I've got it all. I didn't look that deep into it. Yeah, that guy is a super fan. Like he, that website, that website has remarkably very little about the first movie and a shitload about all the sequels.

Dave!: Well, because no one gave a shit about the first movie. Like, there's very little. And I mean, I am a researcher by trade, and I did a very cursory search and there's nothing.

Bryan!: I

Dave!: Like,

Bryan!: had

Dave!: it

Bryan!: a

Dave!: barely

Bryan!: really hard

Dave!: got

Bryan!: time.

Dave!: reviewed.

Bryan!: Like that's the thing, like everything that I looked up, it's a pretty anemic run on like trivia and notes for it this time, just because like, there's not much out there. It's very weird. Like it's a hot cult movie. Like people fucking love this movie

Dave!: I think, you

Bryan!: and

Dave!: know,

Bryan!: I'm among them, but

Dave!: I

Bryan!: they're...

Dave!: think it is, it's just, it is what it is. Like you get what you get. There's not, you know, this is not, there's not a lot of subtext here.

Bryan!: Ha

Dave!: There's,

Bryan!: ha.

Dave!: this is just a straight, this movie barely has a plot.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: It is just one scene of horrible children after another,

Bryan!: Ha ha ha.

Dave!: you know, intercut with kind of like pretty low budget murder set pieces. And then this supposedly very shocking ending. And I will say upfront, the ending of this movie, which is what gets most of the press, I find that to be one of the least shocking things about this.

Bryan!: I will tell you what, I think that I definitely, cause I remember when I first saw it, cause I was just a kid and when the ending popped up, I was like, what the fuck? But now, and like an adult with like critical thinking skills and like

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: the

Dave!: anyone

Bryan!: ability

Dave!: who's

Bryan!: to

Dave!: not 15 years old will not see the ending and be like, oh my God, bro.

Bryan!: Yeah, but like, but the thing is, is everything else about this movie lives in the shadow of that ending. And so it's like that, that ending is all anybody wants to talk about, like it's on all the t-shirts. It's that, you know, that face

Dave!: And that's

Bryan!: that she's.

Dave!: when that shit starts to get a little weird and transphobic, because it's like, OK, what you're mocking now is something that is real. You know, we could just we could breeze by the ending. But it's like once you get like the light switches with the fucking dick that turns on, it's like, all right, it's enough. Enough.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: For fuck's sake. Grow up, everybody.

Bryan!: So we open on an empty camp. It's just panning shots of Camp Arawak, but it's all like, it looks like it's been through some shit at this point. And we hear like the disembodied voices of all these children.

Dave!: I

Bryan!: And

Dave!: will

Bryan!: it goes.

Dave!: say, you can't hear, like, it's all kind of unintelligible voiceover stuff. The only time you can hear anyone speak

Bryan!: Yeah. Hey,

Dave!: is when one

Bryan!: get

Dave!: kid

Bryan!: away

Dave!: goes,

Bryan!: from me with that bucket

Dave!: Hey,

Bryan!: of water.

Dave!: get away from me with that pail of water. I'll kill you. God damn.

Bryan!: Which is just, it sets

Dave!: Fuckin...

Bryan!: you up for everything that's gonna come because this camp is like fucking Thunderdome.

Dave!: Yeah, also, buckle up, y'all. If you thought Madman had me doing some accent work, whoo,

Bryan!: We're getting deep.

Dave!: you're

Bryan!: This

Dave!: in for it.

Bryan!: is the most Long Island movie ever

Dave!: I'm going to

Bryan!: made.

Dave!: do my best here, but I

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: make no promises.

Bryan!: Oh my God. So...

Dave!: And actually, my next note actually says this is the most Long Island movie I've ever seen.

Bryan!: Got a note that actually says that. Yep. So yeah, so the panning shots end on a closed gate with a sheriff's note on it. And a sign for Camp Arawak stating that it's for sale. It's actually a camp called Camp Algonquin, which apparently Kiltzik actually attended this camp when he was a kid. It...

Dave!: Yeah, he has got so many font, like you just see it in his eyes, the fond memories he has when he talks about it. I'm like, Jesus Christ, you're a grown man. The fuck is wrong with you?

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: I say

Bryan!: he,

Dave!: sitting in my apartment full of toys.

Bryan!: yeah, he, yeah, you get they've since this camp no longer exists so it's not like a place you can go to.

Dave!: You actually can still go there. They did. Who's that fucking company that does like the event movie screenings? Because there was one.

Bryan!: Oh.

Dave!: I think I sent it to you when I saw it. You could

Bryan!: Oh yeah,

Dave!: go to Camp

Bryan!: I don't-

Dave!: Arowac and screen the movie, but you had to stay outside. And that's when I was like, nope, I'm out.

Bryan!: Uh huh. Yeah, I don't know. Cause one of the things that I heard when I listened to the commentary track was they were like, yeah, this doesn't exist anymore. Unless they're mistaken, I don't know.

Dave!: I think the camp is gone, but you know, it's obviously still

Bryan!: Oh, but

Dave!: there. The land

Bryan!: the land

Dave!: is still

Bryan!: is

Dave!: there.

Bryan!: still there.

Dave!: So they

Bryan!: Okay,

Dave!: were like

Bryan!: so

Dave!: doing

Bryan!: that's

Dave!: a

Bryan!: why

Dave!: screening.

Bryan!: you're staying outside.

Dave!: Yeah, it was like 250 bucks. I'm like, look, I am an urbane homosexual. I do not camp. Also, I'm not spending $250 to sit outside and watch a movie.

Bryan!: No, no, I'd spend 250 bucks to sleep in Ricky's bed. Yeah. So from there, we cut to the boat scene. And

Dave!: Oh man, this

Bryan!: this

Dave!: is

Bryan!: here

Dave!: one

Bryan!: is

Dave!: of

Bryan!: the

Dave!: my

Bryan!: setup.

Dave!: favorite things ever.

Bryan!: This is the setup for the whole thing. So we've got Father, John, and his two small children. They're out on the water at some upstate lake on a small boat. And,

Dave!: There's

Bryan!: um.

Dave!: a boy and a girl. And I'll tell you right now, the boy that right there, his brother is the situation from Jersey Shore.

Bryan!: I heard that.

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: That's crazy.

Dave!: Royalty.

Bryan!: Yeah. So at the same time as they're out just having a nice day, there's two kids in a boat dragging the least interested water skier of all time. Like she,

Dave!: Oh my god.

Bryan!: does she not know that she could just let go of the handle?

Dave!: She, the look of terror on her face. I want a fucking audio commentary with just her

Bryan!: Hahaha!

Dave!: because I wanna do, like, do you remember that movie, the documentary where they go like shot by shot in the shower scene for Psycho,

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: and the movie is like an hour and a half long? I want that, but for this scene.

Bryan!: It's...

Dave!: Because I love this girl. She is shrieking in terror as

Bryan!: There

Dave!: she

Bryan!: is...

Dave!: is being pulled on this fucking water ski.

Bryan!: Yeah, this is before there's calamity. Like, she's just... Like, could the girl in the boat not have gone water skiing? Like, what is the problem here?

Dave!: She is the most unhappy person I've ever seen.

Bryan!: And it gets worse. It only gets worse. So the kids sneak up on dad who's distracted by his boyfriend on the shore, and they push him into the water, which capsizes the boat. They're all splashing

Dave!: And

Bryan!: around.

Dave!: dad is about as 1983 gay as you get. Like I'm

Bryan!: Hehehehe

Dave!: talking, these are booty shorts. He has got

Bryan!: That,

Dave!: the chest hair to the

Bryan!: yup.

Dave!: gods. Like it is, this is a lot. Yep.

Bryan!: Yeah, he's a fit dude, little fur. Yeah, he's, yeah. So yeah, so the girl is like, hey, let me drive the boat. And the boy's like, no. And so she hassles him until he relents. And she gets in, she starts driving. And the girl behind them is like screaming and shrieking. And she's trying to tell them that they're heading towards a boat. They're the people in the water.

Dave!: Now, I have to say, it is not as though this girl has never driven a boat before. It's as though she has never even heard of a steering wheel before.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: Like, she does not even understand that it goes in other directions. Like,

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: you

Bryan!: because

Dave!: can

Bryan!: the

Dave!: turn

Bryan!: guy,

Dave!: it.

Bryan!: the boy is like, hey, turn the wheel. And that's when he goes to grab it and accidentally puts the bolt full

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: throttle.

Dave!: all you got to do is just like this is a boat. It turns very easily. All you got to do is just turn it a little bit and you're in the clear. And she is she is just fucking gunning for.

Bryan!: Also, it would be helpful if they were looking forward, because they're not. They're like looking back at the girl skiing. And the girl's like, and the girl skiing is like, there's people in the water, and then they look forward at just too late, and they plow through the boat.

Dave!: And then in that moment, they hit it and they cut to the beach and the guy goes, John.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And then they cut back and there's calamity in the water.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. So his, John's

Dave!: And then

Bryan!: body

Dave!: and.

Bryan!: like drifts by like just about like just slightly submerged and then like a bloody life jacket like emerges, but

Dave!: And then the

Bryan!: we

Dave!: girl

Bryan!: do realize.

Dave!: on the water ski screams, Oh my God, somebody help the people.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And I will tell you right now, somebody help the people is a line that gets quoted in my house a lot.

Bryan!: Hahaha

Dave!: Apropos of fucking nothing.

Bryan!: Yeah. And she we stay on her in the water as she is just like agonizing like,

Dave!: Yeah, everybody

Bryan!: Oh my god.

Dave!: is. Everyone is just fucking slack jawed as this bodies float by. They're all just staring. That girl is freaking the fuck out.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: She

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: is. I cannot imagine a better opening to any movie, except for maybe Maximum Overdrive. But. But this

Bryan!: The bridge.

Dave!: really is really just grabs you and want me. You want to be there.

Bryan!: Right, and it's tight. That's the thing about this movie is it's actually pretty snappy. It's paced very well. Like this guy was not like, he definitely was in the right business, like making movies. Cause like, this is a very tight scene that just sort of sets everything up because now we cut to probably my favorite character introduction ever. We cut to eight years later in what I can only assume is a home on Long Island. And enter. Aunt Martha, one of the weirdest characters I've ever seen. She's an enigma. She gets five minutes of screen time. We get her right up front and then we get her right at the back. And all I wanna do is talk about her. We could do an entire podcast just about her because she

Dave!: I

Bryan!: is

Dave!: think.

Bryan!: in the wrong movie.

Dave!: The best, the well, so, yeah, she's not even not even in like a different movie. She's in like a different fucking planet.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: The best way that I've heard her described was by Cecil Baldwin, who said she is

Bryan!: Hahaha.

Dave!: a woman playing a drag queen, playing a woman.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, is for a long time, I was actually sort of under the impression that she was a drag queen because

Dave!: I think

Bryan!: she

Dave!: a

Bryan!: gives

Dave!: lot of

Bryan!: off,

Dave!: people are.

Bryan!: she gives off like hardcore drag queen energy. And also a lot of it has to do with the way that she's dressed because

Dave!: Because

Bryan!: she

Dave!: it's

Bryan!: is dressed,

Dave!: fucking bonkers. Why

Bryan!: she

Dave!: is she

Bryan!: is

Dave!: dressed

Bryan!: dressed,

Dave!: this way?

Bryan!: she is dressed like somebody who's been struck by lightning. Like it's crazy. She's

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: got

Dave!: she's

Bryan!: like a

Dave!: dressed like an American's idea of a Paris travel brochure from the fifties. Like she is a cliche

Bryan!: She's got this big

Dave!: upon

Bryan!: beret

Dave!: a cliche.

Bryan!: on. Yeah, she had this big like red and blue beret on and like this yellow sweater. All it's all, it's all like primary colors, bright primary colors. And she's got these like white shirt and white shorts and like white tights. And she comes in to the scene on fire. She's got this like sing song voice. And before anybody else has even entered the frame, she does this thing where she'll be like. children, it's time to catch the bus. We don't wanna miss the bus. And then she sort of like turns to the camera

Dave!: No.

Bryan!: and like touches her chin thoughtfully. And she's like, well, we wouldn't want that now, would we? And she does that like seven times

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: in

Dave!: it's

Bryan!: just

Dave!: like she,

Bryan!: this

Dave!: the

Bryan!: scene.

Dave!: only direction she got was, you know, be like a woman, but bigger.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: It's like the uncanny valley of women.

Bryan!: And it's what's really, really weird about this is because she's like on a scale of one to 10, she's operating at like 15. And by the looks of everything around her, she's like a regular like high functioning adult judging by like this nice home that's well kept and a son who is reasonably well adjusted and this custodian,

Dave!: Well... W-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w

Bryan!: we're gonna get, oh, Ricky is the shit. But you could.

Dave!: So here, the backstory on her is, she's sort of like an amateur-ish actor, and it sounds like she wasn't really getting a lot of direction. Honestly, it sounds like he barely directed any of these actors, but he wasn't really getting a lot of direction, so she was like, look, these lines are really weird. I don't know how to deliver these. I think you need to get somebody else to do this. And he was like, absolutely not. There's no fucking time. You're doing these lines right now. Do them now. And she was like, okay, fine. I'm just gonna read them like I... I think I'm supposed to, I guess. And it just comes off like a fucking RuPaul's Drag Race skit

Bryan!: She's

Dave!: with this

Bryan!: like,

Dave!: like weird woman being weird.

Bryan!: she is like a mental patient. Like it is crazy. It's very hard to, to lev, like just basically to put her in this, this same scenario. Cause she also says like, she's a doctor. And I'm like, I have a very hard time believing that. Like I, I believe that she is a patient of a doctor. Like, but yeah, her,

Dave!: would

Bryan!: her.

Dave!: not trust her as a doctor.

Bryan!: I know if I if I went to a doctor's office and she came in and she's like hi, I'm the doctor. I'd be like I

Dave!: Like,

Bryan!: have made a terrible

Dave!: I need to

Bryan!: mistake

Dave!: see some identification, ma'am. Ma'am? Question mark.

Bryan!: Yeah, she's basically she is what the way that I kind of describe her she's like a mink stole character

Dave!: Yes, she reads very much like, I was thinking of like, it was a Cookie Mueller's character in like Pink Flamingos where it's like, you know, just be a woman. And it's like, okay,

Bryan!: Hahaha

Dave!: where, what is this idea of women that you have?

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. But also, I mean, apart from her, she's just this humongous presence in the scene. But she's got also, this is where we meet Ricky and Angela. So Ricky's her son, and Angela is presumably the survivor of the boat accident.

Dave!: Well, she is the survivor of the boat accident.

Bryan!: That's what I meant. I was trying to say, I was trying to skirt around the whole thing that she's, you know, She's not who we think she is, is basically the setup there.

Dave!: Yeah, there's no way to talk about this movie without

Bryan!: I don't know, fuck

Dave!: giving

Bryan!: it. I

Dave!: away

Bryan!: don't

Dave!: the ending.

Bryan!: know. Angela's the killer. OK. So.

Dave!: She also used to be a boy. There's no way to not talk about these things.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. Yep, I think by this point, everybody knows that. I'm not exactly spoiling anything here. If I just did, sorry.

Dave!: Oh no, there's a million other reasons to watch this.

Bryan!: Oh my God, oh my God. Yeah, like that's the thing is like I said, the twist at the end, everything lives in the shadow of that moment for all the stupidest reasons, because everything that else that happens in this movie is demented. It is one of the craziest things I've ever seen. So Ricky is your average teenage boys, like 13 or 14 maybe, and Angela is basically a mute. So for about half of this movie, she does not say a word. She just stares at people. And that's what she does here. So we cut to that arrival at camp, kids running everywhere. It's fucking mayhem. And this is kind of, this is like, this is the tenor of the entire movie is just

Dave!: Funny,

Bryan!: hordes.

Dave!: you should say that. My note says that this scene really sums up the whole movie.

Bryan!: Hehehehe

Dave!: You got Mel and Ronnie shouting over each other, get kids running ever. I'm like, it's overwhelming. You have no idea what's going on, who anybody is, or what is going to happen.

Bryan!: Yeah. So now we cut to the chef and basically all of the kitchen

Dave!: Ugh.

Bryan!: staff

Dave!: This

Bryan!: standing.

Dave!: fucking rogues gallery of perverts.

Bryan!: I know. So the chef is this big fat guy who's getting hungry, boy hungry for fresh young chicken, he says, which is like

Dave!: Oh.

Bryan!: the grossest line of all

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: time.

Dave!: where I come from, we call them baldies. What the fuck?

Bryan!: Fuuuuuuuck this. Ugh.

Dave!: Also,

Bryan!: So.

Dave!: the black guy next to James Earl Jones father.

Bryan!: No shit.

Dave!: Yes, it is.

Bryan!: That's funny as hell. Yeah, that line, fresh young chicken. Like I would have no idea what that even means if it wasn't for the movie, The Exterminator. Cause...

Dave!: Yeah, no, everybody at this camp is way too cool with pedophilia.

Bryan!: They laugh it off. They, like all of his buddies are like,

Dave!: And

Bryan!: yeah,

Dave!: I was like, you are a card.

Bryan!: oh, he's got, you got a little of the devil in him is what is it one line about him. And I was like, he's got a lot of the devil in him. If those guys had any sense of responsibility whatsoever, they would have dragged him out behind the fucking kitchen and stopped him to death and dragged him off into the woods for the animals to dispose

Dave!: Yeah, why

Bryan!: of.

Dave!: no one has called the police yet is, I mean, in just on day one.

Bryan!: Yep, yep, oh my, yeah, so this movie, it paints summer camp as this thing that all children are looking forward to because they're all very excited to be there. But me watching this movie, what I see is like an arena. Like the fact that anybody survives this before the murders even start happening,

Dave!: Well,

Bryan!: like the year, any

Dave!: Jonathan,

Bryan!: years prior.

Dave!: Jonathan Tearsen says in one of these interviews, he's like, Oh, you know, it's the first time I had seen anything that was like, like how camp actually is. And I was thinking like, man, what the fuck camp did you go to?

Bryan!: Oh, okay, so I wrote an article, I wrote an essay about this movie earlier this year, and in that I actually talk about, I've been to camp twice, and I can say that this, well, this movie's an obvious exaggeration, but not by much. I went to like a cub scout camp, the summer I was 10, and then I went in sixth grade, we all had to go to this thing called conservation

Dave!: Oh,

Bryan!: camp.

Dave!: fuck that.

Bryan!: Did you have to go to that?

Dave!: I forgot about that, yes.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. So when we went to that, it was awesome because our school was so small. They booked us up with another town that also had a small school. And the fucking animosity between the two of our schools for one another, and they just threw us into bunks together. It was like warfare the whole time. It was like the most unsettling experience of my life. I hated every second of it. The Cub Scout camp won not so much, but again, it was like different, like only a few of us from our, like our, whatever we called it at the time, our troop. And then like handfuls of kids from other troops. And it was the same thing where it was just like mad tribalism the entire time we were there.

Dave!: Yeah, kids are fucking monsters.

Bryan!: Yeah. So like this movie really kind of like triggered these memories in me of just like feeling like. every step I took was being scrutinized by somebody just like looking for me to fuck up so they could just descend upon me. Yeah. So yeah, this is the setup. This is where we meet Ricky's friend, Paul, who will become an important character a little ways down the

Dave!: Milk

Bryan!: line.

Dave!: toast Paul.

Bryan!: Yeah, Paul, he's a nice guy, nice boy. And

Dave!: Not

Bryan!: also,

Dave!: nice enough though.

Bryan!: Jesus Christ, I know. But his girlfriend from last year, Judy. who is now a gigantic bitch.

Dave!: Yeah, she is, and it's great.

Bryan!: Yeah. In Angela's bunk, we find out that she stuck with Judy. Actually, I wanna go back a second because the thing, the whole setup with Ricky and Judy was the year prior, they were like steadies at camp. And now she's kind of like grown into her body. And so all she's interested in are older boys and wants

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: nothing

Dave!: and she's

Bryan!: to

Dave!: become

Bryan!: do

Dave!: a

Bryan!: with

Dave!: huge

Bryan!: Ricky.

Dave!: asshole.

Bryan!: She's a gigantic cunt. So in Angela's bunk, we find out that she's stuck with Judy, who is crazy mean to her.

Dave!: And we find this out because Judy fucking stomps into that cabin looking like a set of Real Housewives.

Bryan!: She like really does like announce herself with her walk. It's

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: pretty funny. And there's also counselor Meg, who is just an agent of pure chaos.

Dave!: Yeah, no, like Judy's a bitch. Meg is legitimately unhinged.

Bryan!: Meg is the Joker. She does things just to be mean. It's fucking crazy.

Dave!: The

Bryan!: And

Dave!: name's

Bryan!: her motive.

Dave!: Meg. M-E-G. Okay.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, and then as we're going to find out a little ways down the road, she's got, she's got a weird interest in men.

Dave!: Oh

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: yeah.

Bryan!: very, very specific, very specific kink that makes me a little sick to be honest. Yep,

Dave!: And there's

Bryan!: so.

Dave!: also there's also Suzie, the other camp counselor, and

Bryan!: Oh, that's right, Suzy. She's

Dave!: she

Bryan!: the nice

Dave!: now

Bryan!: one.

Dave!: she's the nice one as is implied by her bland Mormon appearance.

Bryan!: Yeah, that's right. That's right, because Meg looks crazy. She's

Dave!: She's wild-eyed and just

Bryan!: like,

Dave!: all

Bryan!: next

Dave!: over the place.

Bryan!: year, she's going to have like a Harley Davidson vest and like a buzz cut for hair. Judy is just going to get like more and more pornier as she

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: goes on. Yeah,

Dave!: And more awesome. Yeah.

Bryan!: and

Dave!: I think that's what you're saying.

Bryan!: I know. Yeah, but Suzy, nope. But she's like the only relief in this fucking storm that Angela's stuck with. But to

Dave!: But

Bryan!: be

Dave!: like,

Bryan!: honest.

Dave!: Judy's a raging bitch, but in her defense, and I will defend her, Angela is just fucking staring at them in the creepiest way.

Bryan!: That's the thing. So like, you know, I probably wouldn't, I wouldn't be mean about it, but I certainly would be creeped out if I'm like talking to this girl who's just blank faced,

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: doe-eyed.

Dave!: some fucking catatonic flat affect, like, it's a little bit unnerving.

Bryan!: Cause I was never really sure how the setup is really supposed to establish her. Is like, is she just like catatonic and like traumatized? Like this is just the girl who is like, the last eight years of her life has been just like in monk-like silence because she just is so terri- like just traumatized by this death or, or is just, or like, is this just her interpretation of shy? Cause it's

Dave!: I think

Bryan!: fucking-

Dave!: this is like, this is she's not, doesn't know how to behave so she doesn't say anything.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. But we cut to a few days later, we're in the lunch hall, we find out that Angela hasn't eaten much in the last three days. The counselor, Ron, takes her to the kitchen, basically delivering her to the pedophile chef who immediately.

Dave!: And also, Ronnie's shorts, Jesus Christ.

Bryan!: Ron's shorts barely conceal his testicles.

Dave!: I mean,

Bryan!: It is.

Dave!: these are like in this is the age of men in short shorts. And even in for that, this goes way above and beyond.

Bryan!: All the shorts on all this all the guy all the shorts that the guys wear in this one are all super short

Dave!: And

Bryan!: shorts

Dave!: now I'm going to I'm going to interject here for a minute, because this is a movie that by and large is just a knockoff of Friday the 13th, among other things. But in a lot of ways, it subverts as many tropes as it does rely on. And one of them and probably the most notable one is that the cameras lingering gaze on the bodies of young men in this movie is antithetical to the genre. Like you.

Bryan!: It

Dave!: You never see female nudity in this. You see male nudity in this

Bryan!: Yep,

Dave!: a lot.

Bryan!: a lot. Yeah, there's, and what's interesting is the boys all seem way more interested in each other than they are with the girls. And the girls all want nothing to do

Dave!: I've

Bryan!: with

Dave!: got

Bryan!: the guys.

Dave!: some comments about that too, but...

Bryan!: Yeah, so the pettahoe chef basically immediately starts taking his pants off. He...

Dave!: Well, yeah, but first, James Earl Jones' father comes in as Ronnie's in the, he's like, here, go get some, go into the, you

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: know,

Bryan!: he'll

Dave!: unsafe

Bryan!: get you

Dave!: walk-in

Bryan!: some ice cream.

Dave!: with the pedophile. And James Earl Jones' father comes in and goes, phones for you and Mel, Ron. And I was like, why is the phone for both of you?

Bryan!: Yeah, right.

Dave!: When do you ever get a phone call for two people?

Bryan!: Yeah, like they have to like both like answer on different phones.

Dave!: It's like when you call your parents in 1996 and they have to put it on speakerphone. Like, I don't know, I don't

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: know, it's a thing. And this walk-in scene is just, it is just chilling.

Bryan!: It's so awful, because

Dave!: Now

Bryan!: he corners

Dave!: apparently they are

Bryan!: her.

Dave!: not in there together when they're shooting this.

Bryan!: That makes me comfortable, more comfortable with this scene. Because...

Dave!: Because her, so Felicia Rose's mother was very, very present on the set the entire time. And

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: anything

Bryan!: don't blame her.

Dave!: that she was like, nope, she's not doing that. They would have to like work around it.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And so it was like, anytime like it had to do with sex or violence, she was like, no way, you got to figure it, figure something else out.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And so this was one of the ways they kind of got around it. Apparently everybody else's parents like drove them up there, dropped him off and left. God bless

Bryan!: That's,

Dave!: the eighties.

Bryan!: yep, yep. So thankfully, Ricky shows up just in time to save her. And the thing about Ricky is he's like a mad dog from the start.

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: Like

Dave!: he

Bryan!: every...

Dave!: is an angry little man. He's a 14

Bryan!: He...

Dave!: year old boy, but he's like an angry, angry 40 year old.

Bryan!: He goes from zero to 60 in like seconds and every scene he's in results in him basically starting very calm and immediately flipping the script and just going ape shit on whoever's around him. His affect is crazy in this movie. He's my favorite character in the whole thing because of just what a machine

Dave!: You must

Bryan!: he

Dave!: have not

Bryan!: is.

Dave!: seen Judy then, apparently. This is all I can assume.

Bryan!: So yeah, he saves her and they run out together. But a little later on.

Dave!: Now, now they run out together, clearly in terror, followed by Artie, who is fixing his belt, like refastening his belt

Bryan!: He...

Dave!: in front of Mel, who just sort of shrugs it off.

Bryan!: Yah!

Dave!: It's just like, ah, camp, camp memories.

Bryan!: He lit, so two children literally run out of the, the refrigerator in terror as he comes out, putting it, buckling his fucking pants. And everybody's just like, no, I don't see what he's doing.

Dave!: Yeah, they are like, they are running hand in hand, like they're running from the fucking Blitzkrieg and they're just like, huh, what?

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. So a little later on, Pano Chef is boiling a ridiculous pot of water.

Dave!: You

Bryan!: It's

Dave!: know what that pot is though.

Bryan!: Chekhov's

Dave!: See what happens

Bryan!: pot.

Dave!: is when you introduce that pot in this first act, it is bound to go off in the second act.

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: And I have about a million fucking questions about this giant pot.

Bryan!: What is this fucking po-

Dave!: Why

Bryan!: like

Dave!: is

Bryan!: they-

Dave!: it so large? How do you drain it? How do you get the corn out of it?

Bryan!: It is the least functional piece of cookware I've ever seen. So if you've not seen this, imagine a pot that could hold 20 gallons of water, a pot that could fit a 13 year old in it. It's...

Dave!: Oh no, that's more than 20 gallons. This thing is like six feet tall.

Bryan!: It's enormous. And it's basically, it's a disaster waiting to happen. So an unseen assailant sneaks up on the petto chef while he's all alone and perched precariously over the pot, pulls the chair out from under him, bringing the entire boiling water,

Dave!: except he

Bryan!: you

Dave!: lingers

Bryan!: know.

Dave!: there, he lingers there for a while. And again, this is like the boat moment. Like, just get off the chair.

Bryan!: I know,

Dave!: All you

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: have to do is step down.

Bryan!: Right, cause what he does is she kind of like yanks it real quick and he, instead of being like, oh, I should get down, he like lurches forward and grabs the shelf in front of him. And then this gives her plenty of time to like pull the chair out from under, remind you, you don't see her doing this, it's just

Dave!: No,

Bryan!: a

Dave!: we

Bryan!: hand.

Dave!: just see Ricky's hands.

Bryan!: Yeah, that's okay. We're gonna get to a spot where I wanna talk about that misdirect, cause it's

Dave!: Because it's

Bryan!: very

Dave!: always

Bryan!: busy.

Dave!: Ricky's hands.

Bryan!: It's very bizarre to me. So yeah, the pot comes down, boiling water goes all over him. He sustains horrible injuries and I don't feel bad for him at all. No, but the best part is what happens next is the police are in there talking to Mel and they spend like 10 minutes just musing over how horrible the pain must

Dave!: And

Bryan!: be.

Dave!: the doctor who's just like, I can't even imagine. My god. It must

Bryan!: It must

Dave!: be so

Bryan!: be,

Dave!: horrible.

Bryan!: yeah. And then it just goes on and on for like a couple of minutes before Mel's like, yeah, let's get this ambulance out of here before we

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: start a panic.

Dave!: I have a lot of questions also about like Mel's kind of borscht belt creep persona. Like,

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: whose direction is this? Is this his idea to play it this way? Because it makes no fucking sense.

Bryan!: not a whole lot about Mel makes sense yeah cuz he's mostly his whole his whole arc throughout the whole thing is I hope nobody finds out about the this as bodies stack up

Dave!: Yeah, I mean, this is Jaws. It's, you know,

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: let's...

Bryan!: he's,

Dave!: We don't

Bryan!: yeah,

Dave!: want

Bryan!: he's

Dave!: to

Bryan!: Vaughn.

Dave!: ruin

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: the summer camp.

Bryan!: And so now we cut to mind over matter,

Dave!: Okay,

Bryan!: which... Ha ha

Dave!: again, I-I... I

Bryan!: ha.

Dave!: don't- I-I was not a normal boy. And I gotta know, is this- is this stuff that boys do together, cause this

Bryan!: In my experience,

Dave!: seems- this seems

Bryan!: no.

Dave!: pretty gay.

Bryan!: So yeah, the whole thing is it's them, it's his bunkhouse, they've got this kid, this nerdy kid named Mozart, lying on the floor with like a towel over his eyes, like he's blindfolded. And Ricky is like doing this like real stage magician, like mind over matter, we're gonna hypnotize

Dave!: Yeah, it's real prestidigitation

Bryan!: you. Yeah,

Dave!: in

Bryan!: and you...

Dave!: its presentation. Say that three times fast.

Bryan!: He says, in your mind, you'll want to do a sit up, but your body will be unable to. And so they set him up to do this. And then at the... Ha ha

Dave!: I love that Mozart's shirt is stained. Heh. He's just his fucking slob.

Bryan!: So the question that you asked before, like, is this a thing that boys do? Not in my experience.

Dave!: It is it is very odd, but they frame it as though like it's just boys being boys

Bryan!: Yeah, I know.

Dave!: I guess but I Mean, here's what I know about like 13 and 14 year old boys. They aren't deeply ashamed of their bodies

Bryan!: Yeah, not in this movie they aren't. No,

Dave!: No!

Bryan!: cause we get to the, we get to like more of these like scantily clad dudes at the baseball game which is

Dave!: Oh,

Bryan!: another

Dave!: the fucking

Bryan!: one,

Dave!: baseball game.

Bryan!: another one of my favorite scenes in the movie. It's just one punk house against another one out there. But these kids leave you with the impression that they are going to murder one another.

Dave!: Yeah, OK, so here's the setup for this baseball game, softball game, whatever they're doing. It is Ricky's bunk, you know, what are they like 13, 14, something like

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: that in their head counselor, Jean and Jean's outfit. Holy shit. He has got a crop

Bryan!: He's got the

Dave!: top T-shirt.

Bryan!: half, yeah, the half shirt.

Dave!: He has got some fucking Daisy Duke shorts.

Bryan!: T-Tight.

Dave!: He has what I have what I have heard to referred to as buck me socks.

Bryan!: Yeah, those

Dave!: Uh...

Bryan!: shorts are super tight. Like

Dave!: Yes!

Bryan!: this is like he's dressed like a hustler.

Dave!: Yeah, no, they all are. Like these

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: are guys like you would see them cruising the Esplanade. Like this

Bryan!: 53rd

Dave!: is not,

Bryan!: and 3rd.

Dave!: yeah, like, so they're up against the other bunk who are mid-20s, late-20s? Are they

Bryan!: Look

Dave!: counselors? Are

Bryan!: they

Dave!: they

Bryan!: like

Dave!: campers?

Bryan!: I think

Dave!: What the fuck

Bryan!: that

Dave!: is going on?

Bryan!: I think they're supposed to be camp counselors because later on they're like Like we don't even have enough.

Dave!: They're

Bryan!: We don't we

Dave!: not,

Bryan!: don't

Dave!: though.

Bryan!: know They're like we don't have enough guys to get a game against the counselors. Like that's

Dave!: They're

Bryan!: the thing

Dave!: campers.

Bryan!: is after

Dave!: Bill is a camper.

Bryan!: This,

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: this, this is one of the most aggressive scenes in the entire movie, entire movie, an entire movie that is aggressive. It's one of the most aggressive movies I've ever seen. The shit talking is non-stop. Like

Dave!: Yeah, one

Bryan!: one kid

Dave!: of them

Bryan!: gets

Dave!: gets

Bryan!: up

Dave!: up

Bryan!: to

Dave!: to- goes up to the- to the plate or whatever, uh, and one of- you hear one of them go, Ah, don't worry about it, this guy blows dead dogs.

Bryan!: Eat shit and die, Ricky. Eat shit and live, Bill.

Dave!: Eat shit and live, Bill. Ugh, eat shit and live, Bill. I

Bryan!: I...

Dave!: want

Bryan!: Yep,

Dave!: a t-shirt

Bryan!: yep,

Dave!: that says that.

Bryan!: there's an Iron Reagan song called Eat Shit and Live. But the thing is, the way that this scene plays out, I am amazed that no one on these teams is trying to bludgeon another person with that bat. Because

Dave!: And this

Bryan!: you...

Dave!: scene is so fucking long. It goes on for like four minutes.

Bryan!: It's really quite a long scene, like...

Dave!: And it's really just like a montage, like a baseball montage, but in between they're just like borderline attacking each other.

Bryan!: Yep, yep. And the thing is, it's just a baseball game, but it's, it's one of the best parts of the whole movie. Like, it's

Dave!: and

Bryan!: just

Dave!: their

Bryan!: so

Dave!: money.

Bryan!: funny.

Dave!: There is money riding on this game.

Bryan!: Yeah, like five, five bucks a man.

Dave!: And then so then the game ends and Ricky's team wins and they're all sort of a hooray, a huzzah, you know, doing what they

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: do.

Bryan!: We can do with your

Dave!: And

Bryan!: winnings.

Dave!: and yeah, they're kind of really talking it up, like rubbing it in the face and Ricky in like this weird kind of mid Atlantic sort of Barbara Stanwyck voice goes, and maybe the girls want a game. What is going

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: on?

Bryan!: Meanwhile, the losers are like, don't worry, we'll get them later.

Dave!: Yeah, when I cut his throat in bed, like it's it is this

Bryan!: Yeah. There's a lot of like oaths of revenge in this movie. So.

Dave!: Yeah, this is like Dust Bowl era value of life. Like, I don't know, like maybe you beat me at cards and I murder you by the train tracks. It's that type of thing.

Bryan!: It is like if somebody, if the cops showed up to find a dead body and somebody explained, oh no, they were having a duel, the cops would go away satisfied.

Dave!: And that is basically what happens in this.

Bryan!: Yeah. So now we go to the dance. And Angela's by herself just doing what Angela does. Bunch of bunch of boys ask Angela to go down to the lake. But they're super sleazy about it. Yo

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: Angela.

Dave!: this is where you get the,

Bryan!: Yo

Dave!: hey,

Bryan!: Angela,

Dave!: yo,

Bryan!: how

Dave!: Angela,

Bryan!: can you be so fucked up?

Dave!: you're so fucked up. Kenny's got a real Billy Flynn vibe to him.

Bryan!: Yeah?

Dave!: And for

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: those

Bryan!: well...

Dave!: of you who don't know, Billy Flynn is the teenage boy who killed Pam Smart's husband.

Bryan!: Yep, yep, as he just did that on morbid, eh? Yep.

Dave!: I did.

Bryan!: So, yeah,

Dave!: Well, I didn't.

Bryan!: yeah. But in walks Ricky to save her again. And this is the scene where I'm like, oh, this kid is a fucking machine. Like he is a mad dog 100%. Because he just walks in and immediately starts a fight with like numerous other people

Dave!: He

Bryan!: who just...

Dave!: walks in wearing a gigantic cowboy

Bryan!: The cowboy hat,

Dave!: hat.

Bryan!: yeah. Yep. And just goes right into it, just launches into an attack. And then it turns into like a brawl as like every boy in the room just piles on.

Dave!: Like this comically large, like you remember that Saturday Night Live skit with Celebrity Jeopardy and I think it's

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: Norm

Bryan!: it's

Dave!: McDonald

Bryan!: a

Dave!: who shows

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: up with the big foam hat on.

Bryan!: Yes, it's funny. It's funny because it's bigger than your average hat.

Dave!: Yeah, it's like that. It's like he's got this comically large cowboy hat on.

Bryan!: Yeah. But yeah, like the way that this plays, like they pull him off, they pull Ricky away and they pull him off the other guys. He's like, anybody's like struggling to get away. He's like, I'm gonna kick your fucking ass. I'm gonna kill you. Like he's going insane in this moment.

Dave!: He flies off the handle at the slightest provocation.

Bryan!: Yeah, it's like, this place is like Lord of the Flies. Like I get the feeling that if something were, something were to have happened and they were to have been isolated from society, these kids would have resorted to cannibalism before the food ran out.

Dave!: Yeah, everybody in this movie is a rageaholic.

Bryan!: Yeah, so at this after this happens, Paul cozies up to Angela and he's a nice kid and she seems to respond to him and she speaks for the first time. He just says like good night. She says good night too, but Judy is not having it.

Dave!: Oh no.

Bryan!: Yeah, most of the most of these scenes that involve Angela involve like a nice little chat between her and Paul and then like a slow pan over to Judy just out of frame looking really pissed off.

Dave!: wearing a t-shirt that

Bryan!: that

Dave!: says

Bryan!: says Judy.

Dave!: Judy. And I'll tell you what, if you think I don't own that t-shirt, you would be mistaken.

Bryan!: You've got a Judy shirt?

Dave!: I sure do.

Bryan!: That's awesome. So out by the lake, none of the girls want to go skinny dipping so the boys

Dave!: Hey,

Bryan!: get all...

Dave!: hey, you know what? That's not a problem for these guys.

Bryan!: Nope, they get all pissed off and they go skinny dipping without them.

Dave!: And again,

Bryan!: Just fifteen naked dudes.

Dave!: like, here's this again, this like lingering shots on these. And I mean, I'll call them boys, but they're all like 25.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah.

Dave!: And like it is just like, here's their asses, here they are, just standing there in their fucking soaking wet underwear. Like, it is pretty homoerotic.

Bryan!: Yep, 15 dudes being naked together.

Dave!: And

Bryan!: Being

Dave!: they're just

Bryan!: stu-

Dave!: like, oh, the girls aren't going up. Well,

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: your loss, I guess.

Bryan!: yeah, like,

Dave!: Look at

Bryan!: fuck

Dave!: all this

Bryan!: you, we

Dave!: fun,

Bryan!: don't need,

Dave!: dude.

Bryan!: we don't need you. So Kenny manages to get a girl out of the lake in a canoe and he tips it on purpose. She swims to shore, but Kenny

Dave!: And you

Bryan!: goes.

Dave!: know what, Kenny, Leslie is taking a real risk on you, and you're being a fucking dirtbag.

Bryan!: Yeah, gotta watch out for water snakes. What a fucking line.

Dave!: You gotta watch out for water snakes.

Bryan!: Yep, so she swims back to the shore, but he goes under the canoe, and that's

Dave!: for

Bryan!: what

Dave!: some

Bryan!: he does.

Dave!: inexplicable reason.

Bryan!: Yeah, and he does that singing thing that you heard in the trailer. And he is surprised when someone pops up from under the water, and then they push his head under, and they hold him down. But then in the morning, the world's most pissed off lifeguard turns over the

Dave!: This

Bryan!: canoe.

Dave!: guy. He

Bryan!: I

Dave!: is

Bryan!: love

Dave!: really...

Bryan!: him. He's like tripping over shit and just cursing everybody. super angry and he turns over the canoe and finds Kenny's dead jacked up body under it and once again Mel is desperately trying to call it an accident

Dave!: Yeah, because this is when the cops show up. And please, God, everybody, take note of that cop's mustache, because we're going to come back to that.

Bryan!: I think that's a different cop at the end, that they

Dave!: Nope,

Bryan!: put a

Dave!: it

Bryan!: must

Dave!: is

Bryan!: at,

Dave!: the same guy.

Bryan!: that he must have shaved.

Dave!: I will explain it when we get there, but...

Bryan!: Okay, so yeah, girls are now playing volleyball. Like I said, Judy's got a shirt with her name on it.

Dave!: Susie looking like a fucking librarian in her late

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: 40s.

Bryan!: Paul talks to Angela who is now fully talking like she's brilliant.

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: She's broken

Dave!: you know,

Bryan!: the

Dave!: for

Bryan!: ice.

Dave!: someone who shows up and is like a pretty much catatonic, she's a real fucking chatty Cathy from this point on.

Bryan!: Yeah, but I'll tell you what, if she had done that whole like blank stare the whole time, I would have just been super unsettled. So thank God she's now talking. But he asks her out. So later that night after like the big like, it's a movie, they do a big activity in the night. He kisses her behind the bunkhouse, but she's super nervous about it.

Dave!: Because he's a little, you know, like, come on, Paul, you gotta ask first.

Bryan!: Yeah, but

Dave!: Or

Bryan!: then

Dave!: at least

Bryan!: he does

Dave!: like you

Bryan!: ask.

Dave!: got you got to go in a little bit slower so they know what's happening and can

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: back away. He doesn't strike me as a kind of guy super into backing away, though.

Bryan!: No, not well, no, because he's, we find out he's pretty insistent.

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: So the next day Angela sits out while the girls all go swimming and then Judy rats her out to Meg. Meg gives her shit, but Angela gives her the silent treatment, which drives Meg

Dave!: And Peg

Bryan!: insane.

Dave!: loses her fucking mind.

Bryan!: goes bull like just goes ballistic. She is.

Dave!: Shaking

Bryan!: She's like

Dave!: her

Bryan!: screaming.

Dave!: violently and screaming in her face.

Bryan!: Yeah. But back in the bunk,

Dave!: Oh.

Bryan!: Judy. Yeah, Judy fucks with Angela.

Dave!: This

Bryan!: Ask why.

Dave!: moment.

Bryan!: Ask

Dave!: What

Bryan!: why

Dave!: are

Bryan!: she

Dave!: you,

Bryan!: doesn't.

Dave!: queer or something?

Bryan!: Yeah, ask why she doesn't take showers with everyone. You queer or something. Which doesn't really make sense in the context. I

Dave!: No, I mean,

Bryan!: mean,

Dave!: well...

Bryan!: but. But one of the.

Dave!: What she's implying it doesn't.

Bryan!: Yeah, but so this is where Suzy.

Dave!: We know the real reason is that she's a real carpenter's dream.

Bryan!: Yeah, oh

Dave!: Flatland

Bryan!: god.

Dave!: Florida needs a screw.

Bryan!: Yep, and that's where Suzy

Dave!: And

Bryan!: slaps

Dave!: Susie goes,

Bryan!: her.

Dave!: Susie goes, That's enough. And she goes, Fuck you. And she smacks her in the face. And it is the greatest moment in any movie ever.

Bryan!: That's an insane exchange. Like it is very crazy. Like

Dave!: Because

Bryan!: is that

Dave!: it

Bryan!: like...

Dave!: is... everything is at a fucking eleven in this movie, and that is- that is really intense.

Bryan!: But I'll tell you, in that exchange, Judy was fully in control of that situation. Like, Suzy was exerting zero authority. Because here's the thing, when you go to camp and you're situated with these counselors, like when you're a kid, like when I went to that thing when I was 10, like all the counselors were like 13. But they all looked way older than me. And so my assumption was... These kids are like a lot older than me and they're in charge, but like their authority is symbolic at best.

Dave!: Yeah, no, this is all very precarious. I don't think any of this is a good idea.

Bryan!: No.

Dave!: I'm pretty sure this is not the way things work. You have children that go to camps. I mean, I'm assuming you've met the people that are in charge of them.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah.

Dave!: I mean, are they 14

Bryan!: Oh no,

Dave!: years old?

Bryan!: they're young. And some of them are kids, but like, the way that like lawsuits work these days, they're like super, super careful about absolutely everything that they

Dave!: I mean,

Bryan!: do.

Dave!: you're not just like, here, take my 11 year old son. Just don't lock him in with a pedophile or shake him violently and scream in his face.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, because they're like, I

Dave!: Nobody

Bryan!: don't I don't

Dave!: said

Bryan!: know.

Dave!: that at this- the beginning of this movie.

Bryan!: This was before the litigious 80s. Yeah, so. Let's see.

Dave!: I'm still high on that last scene. Whew.

Bryan!: It's a singer. Outside the boys are playing the most dangerous water balloon fight in the world on the roof

Dave!: I

Bryan!: of

Dave!: mean,

Bryan!: the bunkhouse.

Dave!: and the guy in the green shirt, he is like 38 years old. It

Bryan!: Haha,

Dave!: is

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: like if I was up there with a bunch of fucking 14 year olds.

Bryan!: Right, and once again, I think that's Bill who's up there.

Dave!: So Bill is one of them, yeah.

Bryan!: And he's the one who's just in the tiny, tiny pair of shorts.

Dave!: Yes.

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: I think

Bryan!: and.

Dave!: Bill is one of many gay men who are in this movie.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: Because this, for a movie that is real cagey about sexuality, this is a real, this is like fucking made for drag queens. Like it is male gays, gay male gays, big drag queen energy. Like,

Bryan!: It's-

Dave!: you know there were lots of gay men involved.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, it's the archest of arch.

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: Like,

Dave!: like I can think of four off the top of my head.

Bryan!: I think I remember hearing that about one of the Friday the 13th sequels. Like maybe it was part five where like, basically the entire male cast was gay.

Dave!: The second one has a bunch of gays in it.

Bryan!: Yeah. But yeah, also they're sourcing a lot of these people in New York, they're all coming from stage. At least the older actors are. Most of the kids are doing like advertisements and shit, but you know, that's,

Dave!: God, I wanna see those advertisements. Just one of them just shaking Grimace violently.

Bryan!: that's. Fuck

Dave!: What are

Bryan!: you!

Dave!: you, queer or something?

Bryan!: Yeah, so let's see.

Dave!: Yeah, they're throwing, they're on the roof, they're throwing the water balloons.

Bryan!: Oh, right, right. And so once again, here comes Angela, they throw the water balloon at her, which hits her, and Ricky goes fucking insane again. Like he is, he's losing his fucking mind.

Dave!: And what I love about this scene is like, so it's all these dudes who look like they're in their mid-20s, except for one kid who's like clearly 10 years old, and he's just standing there giving him the finger.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing every kid in this movie has like the attitude of like an outlaw biker.

Dave!: Yeah, no, they're all like they all work in a deli in Brooklyn.

Bryan!: Everybody's like flipping each other off. It's it's just it's crazy. So

Dave!: Yeah, it's all real like, oh yeah, fuck me, fuck you!

Bryan!: Yeah, and so Mel breaks it up. Ricky gets in trouble, but a little while later, one of the boys from the roof has to, and I quote, take a

Dave!: Take

Bryan!: wicked...

Dave!: a wicked

Bryan!: Ha

Dave!: dump.

Bryan!: ha ha.

Dave!: Ha ha! That's Bill.

Bryan!: Yeah, that's Bill.

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: And

Dave!: Bill's

Bryan!: so.

Dave!: gonna go, he's gonna join for that softball game. But first he's gonna take a wicked dump.

Bryan!: Yep, so while he's taking a wicked dump, an unseen assailant bars the door to the bathroom stall and then drops a beehive into the stall with him.

Dave!: And hey, get this, my note says, dies on the toilet after being attacked by angry bees,

Bryan!: Hahahaha

Dave!: just like Elvis. I wasn't

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: even gonna set it up like it's a joke, I'm just gonna read it flat. Comedy.

Bryan!: Yeah, he breaks out, falls flat, dead, covered in sticks, bees all over his face.

Dave!: And look, I'm not an entomologist. Those are the bees, aren't they? Those are animal people, bug people.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: I'm not one of those, that's for sure. But what I do know about bees is they do not burrow into your flesh.

Bryan!: No, no, but that was a super gross effect. That's the thing, the rubbery prosthetic effects in this movie, pretty good.

Dave!: So in the, on the, the Scream Factory Blu-ray, one of the guys, like the, the makeup guy, the head special effects guy he's in, he's one of the talking heads. And you get a lot, like a lot of the good information you get is from him.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: Cause he talks a lot about how they pulled this shit off with no money. He was like, we tried to get somebody to lay down, to be like a living person in that moment. So like, he could sort of like Twitch or whatever. He was like, absolutely nobody would agree to lay down on the floor.

Bryan!: No fucking way, I would never do that. Oh my God. Like people who like willingly put fucking bees on themselves and shit, those people are mentally ill.

Dave!: You mean like Gloria, Gloria Swanson in that, that killer B movie?

Bryan!: Yeah, no thank you. No thank you. But yeah, like this.

Dave!: Well, that's why she's Gloria Swanson and you're not.

Bryan!: That's right. Yeah, but like, yeah, like the prosthetic effects in this movie are pretty fucking good for a movie that like didn't even cost half a million bucks. Like

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: it's...

Dave!: I will agree. I will say the water boiling thing like that scene, like it's real camp. But like, it looks pretty fucking cool.

Bryan!: Yeah, but

Dave!: The

Bryan!: like that's also.

Dave!: the boat, the drowning thing looks a little cheesy.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, they definitely do look rubbery, but considering that there were other, like there's other like well-known special effects artists out there doing these same sorts of effects, these are like a class above even. I would say this stuff looks better than some of the shit Tom Savini was doing.

Dave!: Because this isn't Tom Savini was good with gore.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: What in gore? Like I watched the Prower last night, and those are really good effects for very, very little.

Bryan!: Yeah, I mean it was all shit that he didn't maniac anyways, so...

Dave!: Yeah, this is more like kind of weird biological physiological stuff.

Bryan!: Yeah, it's all, that's the thing. Well, I mean, that's really the difference between this and Savini is, with Savini, you see it happen. With this, it's all aftermath.

Dave!: And like, I think the reason, so he says in the, with the boat, the snake coming out of his mouth in the boat, he was like, he, he was really nervous about doing the cast for his face, for his head.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And he was like, so the mold got a little bit fucked up, but they didn't really have time to do it again, or the money to do it again. So he was like, I just kind of had to go with what I had. The whole reason for using that prosthetic for that mold is so they could have the snake come out of his mouth. And it's like, it's just kind of a dumb effect. Like you didn't even need to do that.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, I like it. But yeah, like,

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: because they got really dangerous water snakes.

Bryan!: So the thing is the nature of the violence in this movie is one of the reasons why, like, this is a movie that's, the kills are definitely operating on a level above its contemporaries, mostly because they don't involve blood. Like there's some blood in this movie, but it really kind of skirts around the stuff that the MPAA would object to. So like, that's why you get like, burns and bees and you know like the drowning scene like that that's how we were able to see that stuff because

Dave!: Yeah, no one's getting their head sawed off in a swimming pool.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, like there's one kill that's pretty bloody. And yeah, but like everything else is nasty, but you know, it manages to just sort of like skirt under the radar. It's a really interesting characteristic of this already very interesting movie. Let's

Dave!: But

Bryan!: see.

Dave!: now you got a dead, you got another dead kid, you know who's

Bryan!: No

Dave!: not

Bryan!: dead

Dave!: going to

Bryan!: kid?

Dave!: be happy about that?

Bryan!: Oh,

Dave!: No.

Bryan!: Mel, Mel is so upset. They're dropping like

Dave!: Because

Bryan!: flies.

Dave!: he's got another monologue to go on here.

Bryan!: Yep. So that's, well, that's the thing. Mel shows up after every time one of these people dies. And I'm not really mentioning it, but his whole thing is like, he's just twitchy and nervous. Like what is, what do the press hears about this or something like this? But now he's starting to get paranoid. So that night by the lake, Angela and Paul make out on the beach.

Dave!: Jesus, Paul. Come on, hands to

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: yourself, buddy.

Bryan!: She flashes back to a memory of seeing her dad and his boyfriend in bed, but nothing about this scene really strikes me as terribly traumatic.

Dave!: Well, here's where I'm gonna sound the homophobia alarm. And I'm not gonna say that it is, because I actually don't think this scene is. I think this is one of the scenes that people point to as being homophobic.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: So it is a scene, if people have not seen it, it is a scene between the two dudes from the beginning. They're just sort of in bit, like it's often described as though they're making out, but they're actually not even kissing. They're barely touching each other.

Bryan!: They're just like looking at one another and like caressing each

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: other.

Dave!: it's like just two dudes in a bed on the set of dark shadows. And

Bryan!: Right, it is like a brass bed on

Dave!: yeah, this is.

Bryan!: like a soundstage that's just been like draped with black

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: linen.

Dave!: this is obvious reshoot shit. Like they

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: stuck this stuff in at the end, you can tell, because it is somewhere in a black room on a bed. And it's the two kids laughing at the two men in the bed, just sort of like an intimate moment and they're laughing. The way I read the scene is, it's two kids watching two people in a sort of awkward intimate moment, because what we tend to forget is that in our moments of intimacy, it's really fucking awkward if you're watching it from the outside.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And that's kind of all I read this as. And this is where I kind of make this distinction between is this movie homophobic or transphobic or are they exploiting homophobia? And I think it's the latter because at no point does the director or does the movie itself tell us what to think about this scene.

Bryan!: That's

Dave!: They're just

Bryan!: that's.

Dave!: like, hey, here you go. Here's two dudes, you know, fucking or whatever.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And, you know, they're doing it at a time in this country that is... You know, it's pretty ugly. This is the onset of the AIDS epidemic. There is a growing wave of anti-gay violence everywhere in the country. Like, they're exploiting really, really disgusting, pervasive beliefs about gay men as dangerous criminals.

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: But they're

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: not actually taking a stand. So, you know,

Bryan!: That's the

Dave!: well.

Bryan!: thing is because the movie doesn't cast any judgment on it. It's simply

Dave!: Right.

Bryan!: presented.

Dave!: But it's doing it in this way. And this is the thing I fucking hate about Robert Hiltzik because I've watched a lot of interviews with him and he's, every time someone asks about this, he's so like coy and cagey in this way that's like, oh, but ain't I a stinker? And it's like, no, you're a fucking scumbag is what you are. But like beyond that, no, I don't think it's actually homophobic. I do think he knows exactly what he's doing though.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah.

Dave!: And that's what makes it gross, but I don't read the scene. Like it

Bryan!: No.

Dave!: just sort of seems like it's just sort of here's a thing. We

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: needed

Bryan!: like.

Dave!: we needed to stretch this out to 90 minutes

Bryan!: Yeah, I suppose. Like, that thing is, that's the thing is this movie is not 90 minutes. It runs at 85 minutes. So

Dave!: And if you

Bryan!: there's...

Dave!: want to be, there's like that weird threshold to be a feature film. You have to be around 90 minutes. So something tells me they stuck this shit in because they didn't have enough runtime.

Bryan!: Right. So, cause also it's not like this, this flashback isn't just that. Then it cuts to a scene where Peter, the little boy from the beginning and the unnamed girl who we're all supposed to think is Angela are sitting on the bed facing one another and he's like

Dave!: I bet

Bryan!: point.

Dave!: her name is Tammy. She looks like she'd be Tammy.

Bryan!: Yeah, that makes sense.

Dave!: And she looks like Tammy.

Bryan!: Tammy,

Dave!: Little, real, she's got

Bryan!: Tamera,

Dave!: real, she's got

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: real Tammy Long Island energy.

Bryan!: Yeah, I can see that.

Dave!: They all have hair like our cousin Jennifer did in 85. You know, like really big,

Bryan!: The big bangs.

Dave!: and a big Bon Jovi hair.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: Shout out to Jennifer.

Bryan!: Yeah, sorry, that's pretty fantastic here. So the thing is the boy is pointing at the girl. There's a camera like spins around them.

Dave!: I'll tell you now, listen, I am high a lot of the time. And I may have been when I was watching this movie, but I was really taken by this scene because the way the camera moved a little faster, it would have been probably better, but it moves in such a way that it's spinning around as he's sort of pointing towards her as though he's about to touch her in that kind of old dark housey kind of way.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: but it's spinning in this way that their faces start to overlap. And

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: I mean, for a movie that's like low budget schlock, that's kind of a cool effect.

Bryan!: Yeah, I'll

Dave!: It's

Bryan!: give

Dave!: something.

Bryan!: it to him. I'll give it to him. But what this does is it causes her to get up and run away. So in the morning, Paul tries to cool things off, but Angela pushes him away. And seeing an opportunity, Judy swoops in.

Dave!: Yeah, she does fuckin Judy

Bryan!: Yep. And so

Dave!: you

Bryan!: as

Dave!: opportunistic

Bryan!: she's,

Dave!: bitch

Bryan!: but like the thing is, is Paul is not feeling Judy. Her energy is just not Paul energy.

Dave!: No!

Bryan!: No, she's all about conquest.

Dave!: But this is where, well, that overlaps. Well, this is the, was it capture the flags?

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, so as she's walking away, Ricky runs up and talks to Angela and he's got this plan, cause they're all, all the kids are playing capture the flag now.

Dave!: Because they get they spend a long time explaining how capture the flag works.

Bryan!: Yup.

Dave!: And while they're doing it, you've got the same jeans doing like he's like sword swallowing thing and the other kid. My note about the other kid, because he's in it a lot. I don't know if he has a name and he probably doesn't, but he's in. He's one of the counselors and he's in it a lot. And I was just like the dude with the flag looks like every douchebag. I went to high school.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, those I'll get I got to give it to them. They're they're very authentic teenagers.

Dave!: Yeah.

Bryan!: Yeah, so

Dave!: Which is very weird because up to like at this point, so we've got the burning and the burning has kids in it, kind of.

Bryan!: It's a mixed bag, yeah.

Dave!: But this one is like this is a movie with actual kids in it that actually get like they get killed in the movie. It's like, that's a trailblazer right there.

Bryan!: Yeah. So Ricky's whole plan is they're going to walk through the woods to get behind the flag and steal the like, do like a sort of like, I don't know, like a smokescreen kind of thing and grab the flag and run away with it. But as they're walking through the woods, they, Angela stumbles onto Paul and Judy making out.

Dave!: Oh, Judy.

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: Judy, you've sealed your fate. You know what the weird thing about this scene is? It's actually Ricky that stumbles upon them, and Angela is on the other side of them, and she comes up from the ground as though she were crouching, and I don't know if they want it to look like she's like walked up a hill to have stumbled upon them. but it's clearly a flat ground. So she's literally crouched on the ground and stands up after Ricky discovers him. It's a very strange scene.

Bryan!: It is a weird, it is a weird scene, yeah. So later on, Paul's out there trying to smooth things over, but.

Dave!: Oh no, you missed the best part. This is when she runs off, Paul runs after her, and Ricky goes, you know what? You're a real scumbag, Judy.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And I thought, you know, people don't use scumbag anymore. That's a really

Bryan!: And

Dave!: good insult. I wish they'd bring that one back.

Bryan!: that one gets thrown around a bit in this one. It's

Dave!: Because

Bryan!: pretty awesome.

Dave!: you know what the reference is?

Bryan!: Yes, yeah, it's a condom.

Dave!: It's yeah, it's a really it's a pretty fucking gross insult, and I

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: think we should just bring it back.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: As you know, as you know, as you from.

Bryan!: I agree. Let's start using it more on this pod.

Dave!: And then my other my other note in this moment, it just says, God, Judy's hair is so dry. That's how you know I'm gay.

Bryan!: Yeah, so later on, Paul tries to smooth things over, but she's giving him the silent treatment again. Judy comes into fuck with Angela again, but this time you can see the murder in her eyes. Like that expression is still, it's like that stone face thing, but this time she's like.

Dave!: Yeah, everybody is just off the fucking rails at this point.

Bryan!: Yeah, to make, oh yeah, this is the thing is the tension in the camp is just ratcheting up by the minute. And so to make matters worse, here comes Meg who physically picks Angela up and drags her down to the lake.

Dave!: Yeah, this scene is fucking insane.

Bryan!: Cause they're like,

Dave!: Because.

Bryan!: what, you don't want to go swimming? You don't like the water?

Dave!: And meanwhile, Mel has confronted Ricky, saying,

Bryan!: Yes!

Dave!: you killed them to destroy me, didn't you? And it's like,

Bryan!: Hehehehehehe

Dave!: why would you think this kid wants to destroy you?

Bryan!: That

Dave!: What

Bryan!: is

Dave!: the

Bryan!: such

Dave!: fuck are you talking about?

Bryan!: a... It's like he's got a real bad coke habit, but it's all off screen and we

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: have

Dave!: like,

Bryan!: no...

Dave!: it's instead of just ideas about, like, screenplays and restaurants he wants to open, it's just him focused on this kid trying to undermine him.

Bryan!: fucking Ricky, he's out to get me. I gotta get him before he gets me. So yeah, so Ricky sees this happening, but Mel accosts him and is like holding him and shaking him and he's like, I know it's you. I know you killed them to destroy me, he says. So yeah, so they throw Angela who has an understandable fear of water and a total inability to swim into the lake and she's

Dave!: Right in the water.

Bryan!: just drowning. As

Dave!: Well,

Bryan!: the other-

Dave!: the fucking lifeguard is just standing there.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. So.

Dave!: He's pissed though, he's not gonna help any of these little fucking monsters.

Bryan!: He got no time for this shit. So he does eventually like Ricky breaks free. He runs down there, the lifeguard and him help her out. But the thing that this is the moment where I was like, it makes perfect sense to me that Angela is killing these people because if she didn't, they'd probably get her first. Like this, there's like a real lethal quality to this.

Dave!: Yeah, this movie thinks it's giving you and then there were none when

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: it is very clear from the moment The film starts who the killer is

Bryan!: Yeah, like a slasher killer is just the least of these people's worries when all of the children are this murderous So now's the time that we find out that for some fucked up reason meg who might be 18 at the oldest is into mel

Dave!: IF

Bryan!: who

Dave!: THAT.

Bryan!: Who's like 60 something and they're gonna get together For dinner tonight

Dave!: Yeah, yeah. What kind of fucking psychopath eats dinner at 930? Because you know what? Because dinner is euphemism. Fucking. That's what's going on in this movie. And why she would be interested in that you are surrounded by, I mean, attractive by Long Island standards. Sure. But like they're age appropriate men.

Bryan!: Yeah, this,

Dave!: Any one of them will do.

Bryan!: and here's the thing, it's not like he is a debonair, like 60s bachelor. He's,

Dave!: Not only is a borscht felt creep.

Bryan!: yeah, he looks

Dave!: Can

Bryan!: like.

Dave!: I get a T-shirt that says borscht felt creep on it? I

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: mean, it's

Bryan!: That'll

Dave!: this is

Bryan!: be

Dave!: fucking

Bryan!: our f-

Dave!:

1. I can get anything I want on a T-shirt.

Bryan!: That'll be our first merch.

Dave!: Yeah, that's the you know, that's the beauty of the mall.

Bryan!: Oh my God, yeah, he looks like a frog. Like who does he look like? Because he reminds me of other actors. He reminds me of... He reminds me of. Gollum?

Dave!: He definitely he definitely has. He's very familiar in that way. Who's the guy? Uh, what was the fucking movie you watched? The dude he's in Leprechaun two. Oh, he's in vamp. The guy in vamp.

Bryan!: Oh, right. Yeah. Now I can't

Dave!: Nick

Bryan!: remember his name.

Dave!: Zim

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: Vick in

Bryan!: Vic,

Dave!: vamp.

Bryan!: Vic.

Dave!: He's like that. It's that same like, hey, yeah, come on in. Come on, kids, let's fucking do it.

Bryan!: It's classy. He,

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: yeah,

Dave!: it's that.

Bryan!: this is him. He looks, he

Dave!: Mel

Bryan!: looks.

Dave!: is chomping on a cigar this entire movie. He's slapping kids in the head. You know, he's smacking Meg on the ass like you did in 1983 because you're supposed to, I guess.

Bryan!: Yeah. He looks like he smokes two packs of cigarettes before noon. Like this is this guy has a has a fucking look. He's all like hunched over and shit. And yet Meg, who is a pretty young woman, she's super into this guy. Like she was like there was a scene at the very beginning where she sees him. And there's this like moment where they're like, oh, hey, so I don't know. I don't know how this

Dave!: I want

Bryan!: works.

Dave!: to what

Bryan!: I

Dave!: do

Bryan!: don't

Dave!: they

Bryan!: know.

Dave!: talk about? Like, I don't want, you know, as much as I love Judy, I don't want to Judy fandom. I want I want a movie about what that dinner would have been like.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, because we never

Dave!: Unless

Bryan!: find

Dave!: it's

Bryan!: out.

Dave!: unless it's actually sex, because if it is, I don't want

Bryan!: So

Dave!: to.

Bryan!: gross, it's so gross.

Dave!: I don't need that.

Bryan!: Yeah, yep. So Meg goes to take a shower in the empty bunkhouse next door.

Dave!: Well, so first she goes and looks. And again,

Bryan!: Oh

Dave!: this is when

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: we get that Jennifer in 1986 hair because she looks down the fucking aisle of like the waiting line for the showers in their bunk. And it is just like they may as well have blue fucking eye shadow smeared all the way back. The hair is just teased. It's incredible.

Bryan!: Yeah, this is a line of teenage girls like waiting for the shower. And so she's like, oh shit, I'm never gonna get this. So she goes next door to the empty bunkhouse to take a shower, which gives the killer ample time, perfect opportunity to stab her to death through

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: the wall of the shower.

Dave!: so Robert Hiltzik says this is his homage to Psycho.

Bryan!: Got

Dave!: And to which

Bryan!: the fuck outta

Dave!: I

Bryan!: here.

Dave!: say, has Robert Hiltzik ever seen Psycho?

Bryan!: Uh, yeah, this is, this is the one like, this is the one kill that you can kind of feel. Cause what happens is Meg is like backed up against the wall of the shower, just singing like you do in the shower.

Dave!: She's not singing she's humming in this a rhythmic. Hope that's like

Bryan!: Yeah, like, Just

Dave!: There's

Bryan!: like

Dave!: no

Bryan!: that.

Dave!: there's nothing it's like a dirt

Bryan!: It's like the, it's very much like the direction was, like she went in and she started to do the shower scene and Hiltzik was like, no, nobody's gonna know you're taking a shower, you gotta sing in the shower. And so she was like, okay. And just like ad lib this, what

Dave!: And

Bryan!: you

Dave!: so

Bryan!: just

Dave!: here's

Bryan!: heard.

Dave!: but here's another thing about this is that this is a prime moment to do that sort of like 80s girl in the shower spending 15 minutes washing her breasts scene.

Bryan!: Yep, and

Dave!: This

Bryan!: you

Dave!: is

Bryan!: get

Dave!: a

Bryan!: none

Dave!: perfect

Bryan!: of that.

Dave!: opportunity for female nudity. You get nothing.

Bryan!: nothing.

Dave!: Which is weird, since we have seen so many asses at this point,

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: so many boys asses at this point.

Bryan!: It's peculiar.

Dave!: And

Bryan!: So.

Dave!: And I mean, it's like, God bless them. They're making they're making different choices. And I think that's probably why it's memorable.

Bryan!: That's definitely a quality of this movie that nobody misses. It's definitely a quality of the movie that everybody remembers it for. It's just such a strange directorial decision. And just God bless him for it. Just doing something different. But what happens is we see, again, killer POV and hand holding Mozart's knife, which has been confiscated at this

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: time.

Dave!: because

Bryan!: Because

Dave!: you

Bryan!: they...

Dave!: skipped the part where Mozart is also a psychopath.

Bryan!: Yeah, cause he gets, yeah, they do the whole like shaving cream in the hand and they tickle his nose and he puts the shaving cream. And his reaction is to jump up and grab his knife and chase Ricky around with it.

Dave!: Well,

Bryan!: Like he's

Dave!: they

Bryan!: going to

Dave!: all

Bryan!: actually

Dave!: laugh

Bryan!: kill him.

Dave!: at him.

Bryan!: Yeah. So, so the knife is in the killer's hand and she stabs through the wall and just like blood pours out of it and we cut to reaction shots of Meg. It's kind of nasty. So, uh, now we cut to Paul and Angela who meet up outside of the social. And Angela asks where Ricky is. Now this is the part where they're starting to see to misdirect. We're supposed to think that Ricky is the killer.

Dave!: Yeah, because

Bryan!: Also apparently,

Dave!: he's trying to destroy metal.

Bryan!: yeah, also apparently there were supposed to be hints in this throughout that Mozart is the killer as like a revenge thing. I pick up none of that.

Dave!: Yeah, I don't buy that.

Bryan!: Yeah, so Paul apologizes and Angela tells him to meet her at the waterfront. He's like, oh yeah.

Dave!: But she's got to see what he doesn't know that we know is that he's got a glint in her. She's got a glint in her eye.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: But she's going to murder the crap out of him. See, that's the problem is that at no point does anyone in this movie know that they're in a horror movie.

Bryan!: Yeah, even

Dave!: And so

Bryan!: as

Dave!: none

Bryan!: like...

Dave!: of this shit works. Like you'd think, because they do know that people are dying.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, like the bodies are stacking up at this point. They haven't discovered Meg yet. That comes a little later, but there's

Dave!: Because

Bryan!: like.

Dave!: Ricky says to Mel, I was gonna get up a ball game, but there's not enough guys around. And they say it as though there's like, half the camp has been decimated. It's like, dude, like four people have been killed. One of them was the fucking pervy cook. Like,

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: if you can't get up a ball game with what's left, then I got questions about this camp.

Bryan!: Yeah, so, let's see. Oh, right, so next is where there's a bunch of campers who are all going out into the woods to sleep under the stars with one of

Dave!: Well,

Bryan!: the counselors.

Dave!: now first we first we have the is that now or is that we have the.

Bryan!: So, well, what were you gonna say?

Dave!: Uh, where Judy is in the, the camp, the ca- cabin there with the kid.

Bryan!: That comes next. So, cause this is the setup is.

Dave!: All right, because Meg's got the night off. She's got hot. She's got hot plans.

Bryan!: Yeah, so there's these kids, they go camping, and then in the middle of the night, two of them wake up and they're like, we're cold, we wanna go back. And so the counselor's like, all right, let's go. And he leaves three of the kids behind who are just sleeping, and then we get more killer POV who goes

Dave!: But

Bryan!: for

Dave!: in

Bryan!: one

Dave!: the

Bryan!: of the

Dave!: meantime,

Bryan!: hatchets.

Dave!: this is when we go,

Bryan!: So

Dave!: he

Bryan!: now,

Dave!: has not returned yet.

Bryan!: right, so this is where Mel goes next door. He's out, Mel's out looking for Meg and he just about walks in on Judy making out with a guy. And then the dude hides and leaves after Mel leaves, but Judy's super,

Dave!: And Judy says, do you have to kiss so wet?

Bryan!: so wet, gross line. So this leaves Judy all alone. This is the setup for Judy. So Mel goes next door and he finds Meg's body and he gives this. crazy fucking monologue.

Dave!: Yeah, he finds Meg's body that for some reason has just been standing straight up waiting for him to arrive so it

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: can then fall forward.

Bryan!: Yep, yep. But he's like, it's this crazy monologue about how he knows Ricky did this. All the while he's doing it, he's doing that Italian fingers gesture. This goes on and on and on for like the longest time. And it's just this single shot closeup of Mel's fucking froggy face. And he charges out.

Dave!: It's a lot of real lip work he's doing. There's a lot of lip acting.

Bryan!: Yep. So

Dave!: Lapting.

Bryan!: back, back in Judy's bunk, she's curling her hair and the door opens and we get this really fucked up shot

Dave!: Now

Bryan!: of

Dave!: see, okay, I imagine this scene probably was a lot more deceiving on 35mm

Bryan!: un.

Dave!: than it is in 1080.

Bryan!: Yeah, because you can clearly see that it's Ricky wearing a wig. And so there was a point where I'm watching this and I'm like, is there like this whole like missed subplot where like maybe Ricky is like killing some of these people or something?

Dave!: Now

Bryan!: Because

Dave!: that would have

Bryan!: why

Dave!: been a better.

Bryan!: else would they have done this? I have no idea why they do the setup like this. Because also like you mentioned, every time we see a hand with a weapon killing somebody, it's fucking Ricky's hand.

Dave!: And that's because it was using Felicia Rose's hands. They were too very obviously, it was like a girl's hand.

Bryan!: Yeah, OK, OK. I get that. All right. So yeah. Judy finally gets hers here. So when she walks

Dave!: And

Bryan!: in...

Dave!: dear God, this is a really mean scene.

Bryan!: It's the worst of all of them. Because she like, eventually the figure in the doorway walks in and Judy does that thing. Oh, it's you. What do you want? And.

Dave!: You know, I think every single person who gets murdered in this movie first goes, Oh, it's you.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, and so the killer like punches her in the face and knocks her out and then reaches for a pillow over her head and then takes the curling iron and kills

Dave!: Opens

Bryan!: her with the

Dave!: it opens

Bryan!: opens it

Dave!: it first

Bryan!: Yep, and then kills her. Well, presumably kills her. I don't know how this would be a fatal wound.

Dave!: I'm pretty

Bryan!: It would

Dave!: sure

Bryan!: be a

Dave!: that would kill you.

Bryan!: It would be a terribly traumatic injury. We don't see what she does with the phallic curling iron, but based on the sound

Dave!: The implication

Bryan!: that we're hearing.

Dave!: is heavy.

Bryan!: Yeah, we're all imagining the same thing. It's a terrible, terrible fucking way to die. And our imaginations are horrible and we should all be ashamed of ourselves. But yeah, so we cut. Counselor returns to the campsite and he finds all the kids all hacked up. And

Dave!: And

Bryan!: my question is,

Dave!: my note says, Eddie, you're definitely getting fired for this.

Bryan!: My question is, what did these kids do to deserve it?

Dave!: They

Bryan!: You know?

Dave!: threw sand at her. Why does nobody get that?

Bryan!: When did they throw sand at her?

Dave!: So when she gets thrown into the water and she's in the water and they go and get her out and they're dragging her out and the kids are, these little kids are like chucking sand at her as she's walking by like a bunch of little fucking monsters.

Bryan!: Oh no shit, okay then

Dave!: And

Bryan!: fuck

Dave!: you know

Bryan!: him.

Dave!: what? For that, chop them up.

Bryan!: That's okay. I'm

Dave!: And

Bryan!: on

Dave!: this

Bryan!: your side

Dave!: is one

Bryan!: now.

Dave!: of the scenes that, this is the one thing that Robert Hiltzik is like. You know, I wish I hadn't included that. I'm like, fuck you, you fucking pussy. You think that's the part you should have

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: cut out?

Bryan!: so now we find the thing is Ricky has been missing this whole time and he's like suspect number one as far as we're supposed to be to be concerned and as far as Mel is definitely convinced and so he's walking to the social he tells a counselor that he's been lying down the whole time because dinner made him sick so Mel finds Ricky and then proceeds to beat the shit out of him.

Dave!: And he just smacks the crap out of

Bryan!: like

Dave!: him.

Bryan!: two handed Hulk smash type stuff like.

Dave!: Screaming at him the whole time about,

Bryan!: Yep.

Dave!: I'll, I got it, Meg.

Bryan!: Yep, presumably he kills him. And so he tries to run away and he finds his way to the

Dave!: And he

Bryan!: archery

Dave!: just wanted to

Bryan!: range.

Dave!: eat, he was just walking along, eating his chunky bar.

Bryan!: Yep. And so he, Mel finds his way to the archery range where he gets an arrow through the throat while shouting, it can't be you.

Dave!: Yeah, well, first she says, "'You.' It can't be you." It's like, God, you know, you're like the sixth one to say that.

Bryan!: Yep. So meanwhile, one cop in a fake mustache shows up with the counselors

Dave!: Ugh.

Bryan!: all go looking for Angela and Judy. Now this

Dave!: All right,

Bryan!: mustache.

Dave!: now I wish I could. I don't want there are parts of me that don't want to ruin these moments. But at the same time, I'm going to. Apparently, they between the first shot of him when he shows up for the drowning or whatever.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: And this scene, he had gotten some other acting role and had shaved his mustache. So

Bryan!: Oh.

Dave!: they had to come up with something at the last minute. And it's like,

Bryan!: So they

Dave!: so

Bryan!: went

Dave!: you're.

Bryan!: to fucking Spirit Halloween and picked up just the first one they saw

Dave!: Not

Bryan!: because

Dave!: even it looks like someone drew a giant fake mustache on with a sharpie. Like this is like grouch our marks, but cheaper.

Bryan!: It's like bushy and not even close to the color of his hair.

Dave!: It is absolutely ridiculous. Comedy gold the way this looks on this night because

Bryan!: That's why

Dave!: someone

Bryan!: I was

Dave!: clearly

Bryan!: like...

Dave!: just stuck this to us. It's like an episode of I Love Lucy. They just patted

Bryan!: So,

Dave!: that shit on. It

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: looks incredible.

Bryan!: It's like, wow, it's like that can't be the same actor. Nope, it is. So, Paul now waits by the water side as instructed and Angela comes in and suggests they go swimming, telling Paul to take his clothes off and he gets real excited for this. Then Angela begins

Dave!: And again,

Bryan!: to do the

Dave!: but

Bryan!: same.

Dave!: again, I got to say, you know, you're what? 14 years old and someone's like, hey, we're going to go down. But I don't know that some anyone would be like, I think they would probably say they'd be super into it. But when it really came down to it, they'd be like, wait, what? Really?

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: Uh,

Bryan!: that'd

Dave!: I got to go.

Bryan!: be the most intimidating thing in the world. Yeah, yeah, like in theory, fucking awesome. In practice, no way. So the counselors are all searching, they find Ricky, thankfully he's alive. But apparently this was an insert scene that was shot later in production because Hiltzik originally intended for Ricky to be killed by Mel.

Dave!: I'm fine

Bryan!: I'm

Dave!: with

Bryan!: glad,

Dave!: that.

Bryan!: I thought it would have been fine because it's just a fucked up bonkers quality to this already fucked up bonkers movie.

Dave!: But also you couldn't like you could by that point, you would have ruled everybody out. You've only got one person left.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, which is probably why he brought him back. So more counselors find Meg's body. I think that's the part where the cop like throws up or something. And

Dave!: Somebody

Bryan!: finally,

Dave!: does.

Bryan!: yeah, finally Ron and another counselor walk to the water's edge and they find Angela and Paul. Angela is naked and cradles Paul's hand in her lap. But before the big reveal, we flash back for a little more Aunt Martha. Dressed

Dave!: Holy

Bryan!: like an absolute

Dave!: shit.

Bryan!: fucking maniac in this

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: scene.

Dave!: this second outfit is no less wild than the first one.

Bryan!: I would wager it's even crazier. She's dressed

Dave!: She

Bryan!: like

Dave!: that

Bryan!: an American girl doll.

Dave!: she has a red bowler on.

Bryan!: Yeah, so the whole time we've been led to believe that of the two children from the beginning, the little girl, presumably named Angela survived. This is what I was trying to explain earlier and kind of like chomp my words. But it turns out that it's the boy, Peter, who survived. And when he went to live with Aunt Martha, because she's insane, she forced him to be a girl because she already has a boy and wants a girl. And so she's like showing her. the Peter all of these like girl clothes. And

Dave!: And but

Bryan!: then.

Dave!: she says she says when Richard comes home to find a little girl in the house. So are we supposed to assume that Ricky doesn't know about any of this?

Bryan!: Probably,

Dave!: Because I feel

Bryan!: because...

Dave!: like that's going to be a real hard one to.

Bryan!: It stretches credibility for sure. Cause like, I guess he didn't know that like one of the cousins was, maybe he didn't know his cousins. I don't know. Like it's, it's just such a fucked up thing. Like this, this is such a weird twist ending.

Dave!: Yeah, you can't poke holes in it, Martha. It's gonna fall apart way too quickly.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah, but like this is just like, if you thought she was crazy before, like this really nails it home. And so we flash back to the beach suddenly, Angela's stance of, oh, also they do that thing where they're clearly shooting the scene from the same front room as before where she's like sending the kids off to camp, but they've draped the rest of the room in black cloth again, like the...

Dave!: This must have just been like someone's house.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah. But also you could see her breath in that scene. Like it's very cold in that room apparently. But yeah, so we flash back to the beach and Angela stands up dropping Paul's severed head at her feet. This is the part that like, the thing is, I'm kind of team Angela up to this point, but Paul's only crime

Dave!: Oh,

Bryan!: was being

Dave!: yeah.

Bryan!: into

Dave!: Oh, no.

Bryan!: her.

Dave!: Fuck, Paul.

Bryan!: I like Paul, he's a nice

Dave!: With

Bryan!: boy.

Dave!: his like his wishy washy ambivalence, the way he's just like, I'm going to just rip, you know, fucking paw at your shirt, even though you told me not to. Sorry, Paul. Consent's a thing, buddy. You should have paid attention.

Bryan!: But now she's making this like crazy ass growling noise like an animal.

Dave!: And and so this is the I think this is the scene like the thing that makes this moment so unsettling and you're supposed to be like, oh, my. Because what to quote Ronnie. Oh, my God, she's a boy.

Bryan!: Yeah, so

Dave!: You

Bryan!: the

Dave!: see.

Bryan!: camera reels back and it reveals that she's got a penis.

Dave!: And this kind of like foggy, dark thing, it's not, it

Bryan!: It's

Dave!: could

Bryan!: not

Dave!: be way

Bryan!: super

Dave!: more gratuitous

Bryan!: detailed.

Dave!: and it's not.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: I mean, it is

Bryan!: Apparently

Dave!: incredibly gratuitous.

Bryan!: it's like a drunk 18 year old or something

Dave!: Well,

Bryan!: like

Dave!: I'll

Bryan!: that.

Dave!: get to that in a second as well, but I think what makes this so unnerving and sort of unsettling is, so it is a mask. Because her mother was like, so originally the story goes that they were working on a prosthetic that she was going to wear Her mother was like, absolutely not. She is not going to do that.

Bryan!: tell you,

Dave!: But

Bryan!: Felicia

Dave!: every...

Bryan!: Rose's mom, she's on the ball.

Dave!: Yeah, no, she's right about that one. But everybody who saw it was like, I don't know, man. This feels real weird. I don't think I

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: like this. So they get this guy, he's like an 18 year old college guy. I don't know if he's an actor or not, but like he came down, so they like shaved all of his entire body. And they put this mask on. It's a very thin, like a... very thin application. So it looks pretty lifelike.

Bryan!: I'm going to

Dave!: And

Bryan!: say

Dave!: the.

Bryan!: it sits on him awkwardly, but

Dave!: Yeah, it's a little big.

Bryan!: it's definitely like a perfect likeness of Angela.

Dave!: But like he's it is and the eyes are glass eyes from like

Bryan!: Uh

Dave!: a.

Bryan!: huh.

Dave!: What's the stuff things?

Bryan!: Oh, taxidermy.

Dave!: Yeah, they got like glass eyes for that match her eyes. And so it's such a thin application that it looks real, except like it's a little bit too big that the guy, his body is sort of small. And so it's just the proportions a little bit odd, but it's it looks really realistic. And the fucking noise that he's making.

Bryan!: It's a very weird, very

Dave!: And it's

Bryan!: strange

Dave!: so

Bryan!: noise.

Dave!: it's this kind of like hissing growl,

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: but because it's a mask, I can application it doesn't move.

Bryan!: Yeah, so

Dave!: And

Bryan!: when

Dave!: so

Bryan!: they

Dave!: it's

Bryan!: cut,

Dave!: just

Bryan!: they

Dave!: it's

Bryan!: do these,

Dave!: just

Bryan!: they do

Dave!: this

Bryan!: these,

Dave!: top of the tongue moves.

Bryan!: yeah, they do these cuts back and forth between like the full body shot and up close. And when they do the up close, it's Felicia Rose. And when they do the full body shot, it's the mask. And she's, you've seen it. It's the thing where she's got the mouth all wide and her eyes kind of looking to the side. Yeah, so yeah, that's the

Dave!: It's

Bryan!: last

Dave!: like,

Bryan!: line.

Dave!: it is deeply unsettling though, just that sound and like there's that, he does that thing, it's that kind of rip off that, like the moment at the prom and Carrie,

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: where like Pinot Denagio's score is like making that real banging noise.

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: It's that where it's like, everything is just trying to like throw you off. I think that's what makes the scene so jarring is like, it's just, it's so, it's like a, you're being accosted in this

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: weird way.

Bryan!: It's worth it's a scene that's worth talking about. I don't think that it's really worthy of like all of the attention that it gets.

Dave!: Here's

Bryan!: But.

Dave!: where I'm gonna talk about some of the other problematic shit about it, because in the Blu-ray documentary thing I watched, they are all like, you know, it was so ahead of its time, you know, I don't want to use the word brave, and I'm watching

Bryan!: Oh

Dave!: this,

Bryan!: God.

Dave!: and I'm just thinking, you know what, fuck you guys, like,

Bryan!: Everybody

Dave!: this is...

Bryan!: does that. All the people who are involved, everybody who's not Mark Patton says the same

Dave!: Exactly.

Bryan!: shit about Nightmare

Dave!: Like.

Bryan!:

1. I fucking hate that. But

Dave!: Yeah, like,

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: let's, you know, I don't. I have a lot of really strong feelings about this shit, like when straight people look at the stuff and they're like, oh, it must be so authentic. And it's like, no, actually, it's kind of offensive.

Bryan!: Yeah, yeah.

Dave!: It's that type of shit. Now, do I think that this is offensive? No, I think it's very neutral.

Bryan!: Hmm.

Dave!: I absolutely do not think that these filmmakers were trying to make a statement. Like I said, I think

Bryan!: No.

Dave!: they are exploiting the worst aspects of our culture. which thought that trans people are dangerous.

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: Thought

Bryan!: yeah, I mean,

Dave!: and

Bryan!: because.

Dave!: apparently still thinks that trans people are dangerous.

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: And hey,

Bryan!: like.

Dave!: by the way, just in case there's any question on that, they're not.

Bryan!: They're not. Fucking grow up. Yep. So we fade to polarized green and roll credits with a sweet synth ballad about Angela.

Dave!: It is a- that is a banger. This

Bryan!: It's

Dave!: is

Bryan!: a

Dave!: called

Bryan!: great.

Dave!: Angela's- it's called Angela's Theme and it is a banger.

Bryan!: in parentheses, you're just what I've been looking for. Which is the thing that I wish musicians would do again. I have no idea why they used to do it, but that like, here's the song title and

Dave!: Oh,

Bryan!: then

Dave!: a parenthetical

Bryan!: increase.

Dave!: title? I love

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: a parenthetical title.

Bryan!: I

Dave!: Tom

Bryan!: love it.

Dave!: Waits, every other song on a Tom Waits album from like 1973 to 1994.

Bryan!: Yeah. So it's by a guy named Frankie Vinci. And he, there's a bunch of like, there's a, essentially there's a score to the movie that plays throughout, but there's also, there's three actual like songs that play in the background of like the dance scene, a couple of other parts. They're all by this guy and they're all pretty fucking good. Death Waltz put out a seven inch of it. It's probably not available and it probably costs a fucking

Dave!: Look,

Bryan!: thousand dollars

Dave!: it

Bryan!: on

Dave!: does

Bryan!: eBay

Dave!: not

Bryan!: now.

Dave!: cost $1,000. I paid $17.

Bryan!: Oh, okay. I just sort of assume like the way that like Mondo posters used to work where it'd be like, hey, you can get this sweet Tyler, you know, like Tom Whelan poster for like $35, but they'd all sell out immediately and then immediately go to $800 on eBay.

Dave!: This was before this is before Mondo.

Bryan!: Gotcha, gotcha,

Dave!: So this

Bryan!: okay.

Dave!: is one of the I think maybe I don't know. I may have paid 25 bucks, but it was cheap and it's worth it because it's fucking.

Bryan!: Yep, hell of a song. I fucking love it. Like I just like let the credits roll over the whole thing so I could hear it. And the thing is, is the credits actually end before the song ends. So it's just that static face of Angela while the song plays until the end. And there's like 30 seconds of the song left. It's pretty wild. So yeah, that's it.

Dave!: God, this movie is, it is...

Bryan!: Sleepaway Camp. I adore this fucking movie because it is just crazy. And it has, it's just not aware of itself at all. Like at no point

Dave!: No!

Bryan!: does it ever seem to be like reflect upon itself. Like are we maybe pushing things a little too far? It's

Dave!: And it

Bryan!: just.

Dave!: just feels, it feels fucking greasy just from the beginning. Like you've, like you're seeing fly tape in shots

Bryan!: Oh,

Dave!: and

Bryan!: the

Dave!: I'm like,

Bryan!: flypaper

Dave!: I just feel

Bryan!: in

Dave!: like

Bryan!: the kitchen.

Dave!: this is authentic. Like.

Bryan!: Yeah. God,

Dave!: It is

Bryan!: it's so good.

Dave!: it is grimy. And, you know, I there is a lot to say, but like it's a totally fair thing to want to pick it apart and be like, is it homophobic? Is it transphobic? And honestly, I don't think it's going for either. It's worth having those conversations always just because, you know, how we interpret things changes over time,

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: especially if we're watching things like this now, it's worth talking about it. And I

Bryan!: It-

Dave!: think if

Bryan!: it-

Dave!: people are offended, then that's legitimate. Like there's some shitty stuff that they're really They're pulling the cheap shots in this in a way that is so much less artistic than like when Brian De Palma does it in Dressed to Kill. And even then that was fucking gross. So,

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: you know,

Bryan!: yeah.

Dave!: it's worth

Bryan!: That,

Dave!: talking about,

Bryan!: I mean,

Dave!: but.

Bryan!: Dressed to Kill is a problematic as fuck movie anyways. I mean,

Dave!: Well, that's

Bryan!: not

Dave!: because everything

Bryan!: including,

Dave!: he does is.

Bryan!: yeah. But like the thing is, is this movie has been explored and from a sort of gender and sexuality point of view and it's been done to death. Personally, I think that's kind of like the final word on it for me was BJ Colangelo's dread central article about it, which I'll link that in the show notes. It's definitely, it's worth a read.

Dave!: I mean, it is offensive. It

Bryan!: Yeah.

Dave!: can be, but it just it's a matter of how do you enjoy? Are you going to laugh it off and embrace the other ridiculous, campy shit? Or are you going to be like, you know what? This movie is not for me. I think it's kind of gross, which is equally valid.

Bryan!: Yeah, and that's kind of like, I mean, that's definitely, that's clearly our approach is that like, just we're not touching that stuff because it's been done to death by people who are, at least from my point of view, and from where I'm sitting, by people who are way more qualified than I am to talk about it. But yes, but just why you've got the angle on here. But also the crazy fucking bullshit in this movie of like just feral lunatic children, just set to go wild over summer at summer camp

Dave!: Yeah,

Bryan!: where...

Dave!: I think that

Bryan!: A baseball

Dave!: should is.

Bryan!: game is like, is a very dangerous occasion. Like I get the feeling that these kids are going to kill one another at any moment.

Dave!: Yeah, like the weird gender stuff in the weird, even the weird, you know, kind of borderline homophobic stuff. It's like that's just kind of par for the course for a movie from 1983. It's everything else that isn't.

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: Like

Bryan!: but it's

Dave!: I

Bryan!: like

Dave!: watch

Bryan!: I said.

Dave!: movies like this is the thing, you know, and I have said this to younger people and I will continue to say this to you. If you grew up in the 80s and 90s, you expected the world, if you were a queer person, you expected the world hated you. Like that was just the way it was. You expected to watch things and to see yourself or people like you portrayed in really, really ugly ways. And so you just accepted that that's how things were. You didn't let it turn you off to absolutely everything. Now that's a shitty way to look at things. It was never okay, but it's like, you can't look at everything like, you know, get your fucking hackles up every single time. And you know, that's just sort of the way it is. Like toss out the other shit. That's just sort of the way it was. You can't watch anything from this time period without running into it. Watch it for every other thing in this movie. Watch it for Aunt Martha and Judy alone, because

Bryan!: because

Dave!: that is some weird queer icon shit right there.

Bryan!: there's really something to be said for that. Like Judy, Judy is like the nastiest contestant on Drag Race. She's got

Dave!: She

Bryan!: like,

Dave!: is so great.

Bryan!: she's got a killer instinct about her and she is only 14 years old. Actually, I don't know how old she actually, the actress actually is in this movie because there are times when I'm like, she kind of looks like an adult, but there are other times where I'm like, she could be like 14.

Dave!: But this is

Bryan!: It's...

Dave!: that time period, this is like that sort of like, what is the low 80s, high 70s, but it's just like everybody looked like they were in their early 30s and they

Bryan!: Yeah,

Dave!: were like 15.

Bryan!: yeah, crazy. It's crazy. So yeah, this is us exiting the summer camp cycle. What are we doing next?

Dave!: What the fuck are we doing next?

Bryan!: We're doing Stephen King next, Stephen

Dave!: Oh,

Bryan!: King

Dave!: holy

Bryan!: rules.

Dave!: shit.

Bryan!: We're

Dave!: We're

Bryan!: doing,

Dave!: sticking with the 80s.

Bryan!: yep, we're doing

Dave!: And I'll

Bryan!: maximum

Dave!: tell you what,

Bryan!: overdrive.

Dave!: yeah, I'll tell you what. I thought about it and I thought, well, Stephen King's had a very long career and there have been very many movies made from his films or vice versa, and some of them are very good. And I don't wanna watch those.

Bryan!: Nope.

Dave!: I want to watch the ones that Dino De Laurentiis was involved in.

Bryan!: Oh man, we've got two Stephen King movies on tap, both DDLs and God damn, I can't wait. The first one is, as I said, we're doing maximum overdrive. So fucking get ready, cause we'll see you in two weeks.